Used vs new prices

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by Timishere »

thomcat00 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:30 pm The Archive data is a helpful start, but as you can see among various watches, prices fluctuate and asking prices may have quite a range. In the space of just a few months, one model of CW I bought used has been listed at anywhere from 20% over what I paid, to one listed for about 25% below what I paid - and no takers! So I see I paid a decent price per the market, and definitely an acceptable price for me. With that kind of range it would be hard to have an expectation of predicting depreciation for a given model.

About half of my CW watches I acquired as used.
Wow. That's fascinating. Has the "new" price changed in that window? Or maybe the model was in the sale? I can those deep discounts every 6m would introduce a lot of noise into pricing. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by thomcat00 »

This is one of the C7 Rapide line, which had been discontinued a few years back. I only got it a few months ago. I’m not sure if the model had been part of the sale.
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by johncolescarr »

So here’s my take on it as a buyer (and seller) of probably 25+ CW watches:

I will avoid taking specifics because it might breach forum rules 😳

The used prices can be punishing if compared to the CW list, but once the original owner has taken the hit, used prices are fairly stable for the next few years.

Bracelets make the watch far more desirable and can fetch a premium as they are expensive to buy new.

The good news is that CW get a lot of attention and are very easy to move on if you don’t bond with it.

This is for basic automatic models, I’ve not really tried the SH21 or JJ Calibres.

eBay can fetch a premium over forum prices for desirable models but not really for older or less desirable ones.

If you use eBay search for the watch your interested in and fetch sold prices you get a neat record of sales. Beware “best offer accepted” prices, these are not revealed and can go for a lot less than the asking price. Use auction end values as an idea.

Also a search of the for sale page is good but mind the prices on older listings may not reflect today’s values.

Finally, the archive can be useful but in my experience can be a bit off the mark, not sure if it’s because of where the sales are recorded or based on exchange rates but the U.K. conversion can be £100s off for some models.

However, with these 3 sources of info, you should be able to get a good idea of value.

The best deals however are often CW sales, but these sell stupendously quickly because of the scalpers. The sales have watches that are new, from CW with 60:60 for less than a fair condition used model…
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by downer »

johncolescarr wrote: Finally, the archive can be useful but in my experience can be a bit off the mark, not sure if it’s because of where the sales are recorded or based on exchange rates but the U.K. conversion can be £100s off for some models.
Out of interest, which models are off by £100’s?

I’d like to take look in order to verify the archive, or understand if there’s an error of some sort.
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by Kip »

^^
I would like to know as well. Granted there will always be exceptions, but after logging well over 16,000 sales I have found the averages overall to be fairly accurate. One must also take into consideration price trends which are also shown in the charts.

Interestingly, when Watchroll was launched a few years back, after akirk had amassed some data, we did a comparison and were within a few dollars on comparative models.

Example. Yesterday I recorded a C60 Trident Automatic (blue) that sold for $500 on a bracelet with box and papers. The average sale for a C60 Trident Automatic is currently at $474. As the instructions state add 8% for a bracelet. $474 + 8% = $515.
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by johncolescarr »

downer wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:25 pm
johncolescarr wrote: Finally, the archive can be useful but in my experience can be a bit off the mark, not sure if it’s because of where the sales are recorded or based on exchange rates but the U.K. conversion can be £100s off for some models.
Out of interest, which models are off by £100’s?

I’d like to take look in order to verify the archive, or understand if there’s an error of some sort.
A few examples (chosen based on my recent buys/sells):

Recent sold prices for mk3 C60 GMT (38mm) on eBay £450 (2 straps), £410 (strap), £477 (bracelet), archive price $824 (£595). The recorded sale volumes are also very low, hence my question on source of info. i sold my 40mm blue example (bracelet) for £500 and a black 38mm on bracelet for £550)

Another example, C65 GMT 41mm, ebay sales (auction prices) anywhere from £400 (black, strap) to £550 (pepsi, bracelet), archive price $761 (£550). I bought a black on bracelet for £475 and blue with extra strap (NN) for £520.

One final one Mk2 C60, ebay 38mm on bracelet £360, recent purchase from me 365 43mm on bracelet, archive price $610 (£441)

So to be fair, my comment on £100s off was a bit of an exageration in retrospect, but certainly I find the archive is a bit higher typically by about £100. But of course this depends on strap/bracelet and condition.

I guess my takeaway on this is the archive is a very good guide for mint examples on bracelet and full papers etc, which is what the collector wants so think ive convinced myself that the archive is an excellent resource for used prices!!!

I'm quite rough on my watches so I dont mind a non mint watch as I'll be sure to add damage, so I'm happy to buy at the lower end of the range.
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

^^^^ The CWArchive sale prices are compiled from a range of sources worldwide; not only eBay in UK.

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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by downer »

johncolescarr wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:34 am
downer wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:25 pm
johncolescarr wrote: Finally, the archive can be useful but in my experience can be a bit off the mark, not sure if it’s because of where the sales are recorded or based on exchange rates but the U.K. conversion can be £100s off for some models.
Out of interest, which models are off by £100’s?

I’d like to take look in order to verify the archive, or understand if there’s an error of some sort.
A few examples (chosen based on my recent buys/sells):

Recent sold prices for mk3 C60 GMT (38mm) on eBay £450 (2 straps), £410 (strap), £477 (bracelet), archive price $824 (£595). The recorded sale volumes are also very low, hence my question on source of info. i sold my 40mm blue example (bracelet) for £500 and a black 38mm on bracelet for £550)

Another example, C65 GMT 41mm, ebay sales (auction prices) anywhere from £400 (black, strap) to £550 (pepsi, bracelet), archive price $761 (£550). I bought a black on bracelet for £475 and blue with extra strap (NN) for £520.

One final one Mk2 C60, ebay 38mm on bracelet £360, recent purchase from me 365 43mm on bracelet, archive price $610 (£441)

So to be fair, my comment on £100s off was a bit of an exageration in retrospect, but certainly I find the archive is a bit higher typically by about £100. But of course this depends on strap/bracelet and condition.

I guess my takeaway on this is the archive is a very good guide for mint examples on bracelet and full papers etc, which is what the collector wants so think ive convinced myself that the archive is an excellent resource for used prices!!!

I'm quite rough on my watches so I dont mind a non mint watch as I'll be sure to add damage, so I'm happy to buy at the lower end of the range.
Thanks for responding and providing the examples. As you conclude, the archive averages appear to be in the right ballpark, although they will always only be a guide because the volume of secondary market sales is not massive, and the averages can easily get distorted.
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

^^^ I’m no economics expert, but it might also be worth remembering that the prices on the CW Archive are expressed in US dollars. Just looking at a historical exchange graph, the rate hasn’t been that stable over the last few years. A difference of, say, 5c in the pound over a period of time could make quite a difference to the perceived value of a watch that was around the £1000 mark.
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by johncolescarr »

downer wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:44 pm
johncolescarr wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:34 am
downer wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:25 pm

Out of interest, which models are off by £100’s?

I’d like to take look in order to verify the archive, or understand if there’s an error of some sort.
A few examples (chosen based on my recent buys/sells):

Recent sold prices for mk3 C60 GMT (38mm) on eBay £450 (2 straps), £410 (strap), £477 (bracelet), archive price $824 (£595). The recorded sale volumes are also very low, hence my question on source of info. i sold my 40mm blue example (bracelet) for £500 and a black 38mm on bracelet for £550)

Another example, C65 GMT 41mm, ebay sales (auction prices) anywhere from £400 (black, strap) to £550 (pepsi, bracelet), archive price $761 (£550). I bought a black on bracelet for £475 and blue with extra strap (NN) for £520.

One final one Mk2 C60, ebay 38mm on bracelet £360, recent purchase from me 365 43mm on bracelet, archive price $610 (£441)

So to be fair, my comment on £100s off was a bit of an exageration in retrospect, but certainly I find the archive is a bit higher typically by about £100. But of course this depends on strap/bracelet and condition.

I guess my takeaway on this is the archive is a very good guide for mint examples on bracelet and full papers etc, which is what the collector wants so think ive convinced myself that the archive is an excellent resource for used prices!!!

I'm quite rough on my watches so I dont mind a non mint watch as I'll be sure to add damage, so I'm happy to buy at the lower end of the range.
Thanks for responding and providing the examples. As you conclude, the archive averages appear to be in the right ballpark, although they will always only be a guide because the volume of secondary market sales is not massive, and the averages can easily get distorted.
It’s been an education for me Richard and I am now of the opinion that the archive represents a good benchmark for the CW enthusiast/collector.

It’s an unenviable task trying to price used watches from any brand simply because a mint example of say the stalwart C60 could be £600 but an abused example on an aftermarket strap might not get £300.

I take away that a fantastic, beautifully designed and executed automatic sports watch can be had for a mere £500 or less, the price of a service for many main brands!

This is why I always come back for more…
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by TheBeatles »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:02 pm the prices on the CW Archive are expressed in US dollars.
It may have been answered before, so apologies if that is the case. Also, it may be of interest to newer members.

But why for a British watch company are the prices shown in US dollars?
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by downer »

TheBeatles wrote:
Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:02 pm the prices on the CW Archive are expressed in US dollars.
It may have been answered before, so apologies if that is the case. Also, it may be of interest to newer members.

But why for a British watch company are the prices shown in US dollars?
It’s because the data is collected and entered by a team of enthusiasts over in the USA (that’s Kip, actually).

The historical data from the first several years was stored in USD so, rather than trying to convert back to GBP, we decided to leave it alone - in order to show the most realistic comparative trends.
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by TheBeatles »

downer wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:50 pm
TheBeatles wrote:
Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:02 pm the prices on the CW Archive are expressed in US dollars.
It may have been answered before, so apologies if that is the case. Also, it may be of interest to newer members.

But why for a British watch company are the prices shown in US dollars?
It’s because the data is collected and entered by a team of enthusiasts over in the USA (that’s Kip, actually).

The historical data from the first several years was stored in USD so, rather than trying to convert back to GBP, we decided to leave it alone - in order to show the most realistic comparative trends.
Thanks Richard, so it’s just to make it easier for Kip :)

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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by downer »

^^^ No, it’s not to make it easier. :) Either way, Kip needs to convert local sales into one currency or the other, so it makes no difference.

Fact is, the history data we had was all in USD…

We did discuss storing all sales in actual currency together with the prevailing exchange rates. We would then have given the user the choice to display the sales trends in whatever currency they wanted to see.

We couldn’t be ar$ed. Did you see what I did there? :lol:
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Re: Used vs new prices

Post by TheBeatles »

downer wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:39 pm

We couldn’t be ar$ed. Did you see what I did there? :lol:
Clever :clap:
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