Rolex a discussion

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Re: Rolex a discussion

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kiter65 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:51 pm As a few of you know I love a Rolex...but I’m kinda lost on this thread....is it about Rolex watches or the behaviour of their so called AD’s and their somewhat dodgy behaviour :? Or do you associate the two as one
Personally I separate the two...Rolex make amazing watches....AD’s behaviour???
Who’s at fault :?
You are correct, Rolex do make great watches, but so do a lot of other manufacturers now.
I think that Rolex & their AD's have to share the blame on this situation, sorry but that is my take on it.
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Re: Rolex a discussion

Post by drand »

I don't look at it as any party needs to be at fault, but it is a funny old situation. If you have a Rolex then you can debate the quality of the watch free of outside influences. If you want to buy said Rolex - your first or a subsequent - then Rolex the company, the new market (ADs) and the second-hand market are intrinsically linked and it becomes a much more complex discussion.

To me the great thing about Rolex is they've established a core design direction, which they they have kept faith in and refined over the years (particularly the steel three-handers, which are their best work IMO).

I would be put off by having to play AD 'games' for sure but still have hope that one day I might be able to walk in to a shop and exchange retail price or less (!) for an Oyster Perpetual.
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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kiter65 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:51 pm As a few of you know I love a Rolex...but I’m kinda lost on this thread....is it about Rolex watches or the behaviour of their so called AD’s and their somewhat dodgy behaviour :? Or do you associate the two as one
Personally I separate the two...Rolex make amazing watches....AD’s behaviour???
Who’s at fault :?
I don't see how you can separate the dealer from the watch, when you have to either buy from the AD or buy grey market if you want a new watch. Rolex is well aware of the selling structure they have in place and do nothing to change it. You can go onto a grey market website such as Jomashop and purchase a new Rolex for double the retail price, but you have to wait for months and sometimes years to get the same model new through an AD. Grey market dealers typically get their new watch stock from AD's that need to get rid of old or slow selling models. That being the case, how does a grey market dealer such as Jomashop get a hold of the most popular Rolex watches and have them available immediately?

For example, currently on Jomashop they have in stock a new Rolex Submariner date for $16,416. The same watch on the Rolex website is $9,150. This begs the question as to how the grey market dealer can get a constant supply of popular Rolex watches to sell at almost double the retail price. Rolex is well aware of how these watches make it to the grey market, but continue throttling supply to their dealers, which encourages long wait lists and shady dealers selling off popular models to grey market dealers instead of selling them to individual customers.

I read an article a while ago where an AD (in Chicago I think) would sell new Rolex watches to their own employees so they could turn around and immediately sell them as used in the store to customers at a huge mark up over retail price. I doubt that AD is still in business as they were caught, but it shows the shady crap that goes on, and none of it benefits the paying customer.
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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AAAHHHHHHH.......I’m sorry but everthing goes back to AD’s and the grey market WTF has that got to do with Rolex watches....let’s talk about the actual product, the absolute amazing watches they make...the history ref Neil’s/Richard’s post earlier in the thread...am I missing something because I own 2, have I been brainwashed by the hype.... No they are probably the best watches I have ever owned at that price point and I’ve made a few mistakes along the way and thanks to all the s#£t that seems to go with the brand I’m never going to loose any money....I would quite happily pay a decent amount of money for a 14060m if I could find one....but then again I would pay a small amount above RRP for a PP Nautilus if I could find one :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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^^^^^^ great post!

The product..... I've been away from home for nearly 3 weeks and I've almost exclusively worn my Explorer, save for a few hours where I felt it was inappropriate and put my CW on. This means it's been to the beach, it's played football, it's climbed tree's (yes I know!), it's bathed my kids....

It's running one second fast after being set 20 days ago.

Edit: the best part is I don't think I've come across anyone that realised I was wearing a Rolex
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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kiter65 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:05 pm AAAHHHHHHH.......I’m sorry but everthing goes back to AD’s and the grey market WTF has that got to do with Rolex watches....let’s talk about the actual product.........
To be fair the OP did title the thread “Rolex a discussion” and actually invite people to talk about the watches and the AD experience. If it was merely a question about the Rolex quality, then I doubt the thread would have reached 11 pages and made such an interesting read.

I haven’t read the thread from start to finish, rather I’ve read new posts every time I’ve logging in over the two weeks the discussion has been running. My summary next may be complete rubbish and I’m sure anyone can point to a post made which contradicts my thought process, but it’s how I’ve seen this thread evolve.

We have three types of poster here. Rolex owners past and present, people who don’t own but would like to, and those who will never consider wearing one.

Those who will never wear one give several reasons why, AD attitude, cost on the grey market, availability, image. However I can’t recall one post saying they wouldn’t buy one because of the quality.

Those who would like one are already smitten with the brand and again are attracted by the quality and possibly the fact they won’t lose money if they sell. However once more they comment on the ADs and grey market.

Then we have the owners past and present. I can’t see one comment from an owner saying they don’t like their watch, but there are some comments saying they won’t buy again due to the ADs

So my (possibly completely inaccurate assumption) is that no one on here doesn’t doubt for a minute the quality and craftsmanship of Rolex. However everyone from owners past, present, and future, as well as the anti Rolex amongst us, all state their distain for the AD and grey markets.

I think we all agreed several pages ago on whether they make good products, however it’s the other Rolex baggage which, in my opinion, has allowed this thread to grow into the interesting debate it has become. So while as an owner I can appreciate your frustrations, I for one am in favour of the thread going round the houses a bit,
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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kiter65 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:05 pm AAAHHHHHHH.......I’m sorry but everthing goes back to AD’s and the grey market WTF has that got to do with Rolex watches....let’s talk about the actual product, the absolute amazing watches they make
People have been talking about the watches. But the OP invited discussion on the brand and specifically the AD experience.
strapline wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:07 pm The purpose of this thread is I'm curious to hear forum member's thoughts on the brand, good bad or indifferent.

Also, what about waiting lists and the AD experience? Is this something to be celebrated, adding in a positive way to the whole buying experience. Maybe you see it as jumping through hoops and manipulation by the dealerships?
Rolex's strategy is to limit supply to increase demand. That's a direct cause of the way ADs behave and the reason people use the grey market.

Trawl any watch forum and you'll get discussions about more than the actual watches brands produce:

Bremont - marketing and dodgy back story
CW - logo / boring name on the dial / too many sales
Omega - number of limited editions, flogging the moon watch to death
Etc.
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Re: Rolex a discussion

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

iain wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:50 am We have three types of poster here. Rolex owners past and present, people who don’t own but would like to, and those who will never consider wearing one.

Those who will never wear one give several reasons why, AD attitude, cost on the grey market, availability, image. However I can’t recall one post saying they wouldn’t buy one because of the quality.

Those who would like one are already smitten with the brand and again are attracted by the quality and possibly the fact they won’t lose money if they sell. However once more they comment on the ADs and grey market.

Then we have the owners past and present. I can’t see one comment from an owner saying they don’t like their watch, but there are some comments saying they won’t buy again due to the ADs
An interesting summation, but I think you have missed out one group: namely, the ones who are not actually that bothered. For example, I acknowledge the excellence of the engineering and have huge respect for the longevity of the designs. Hell, I even LIKE some of them! I tentatively enquired about an Exp I a couple of years back, and was assured that I could almost certainly get one within a month or two. It wasn’t cost, it wasn’t AD games, I just cooled off on the idea. I wouldn’t say that I will never get a Rolex, but I remain doubtful. There are other watch avenues that interest me more.

The so-called games are what they are, and I certainly don’t agree with or approve of the methodology. Any individual who wants to go via the grey market will have made a judgement call on whether or not they are prepared to stump up the prices being asked. As to those who choose to stand in line, I applaud their patience. Good luck to them. Personally I wouldn’t, but that’s me. There are plenty of fish in the sea, and oranges are not the only fruit. 8)
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:12 am An interesting summation, but I think you have missed out one group: namely, the ones who are not actually that bothered. For example, I acknowledge the excellence of the engineering and have huge respect for the longevity of the designs. Hell, I even LIKE some of them! I tentatively enquired about an Exp I a couple of years back, and was assured that I could almost certainly get one within a month or two. It wasn’t cost, it wasn’t AD games, I just cooled off on the idea. I wouldn’t say that I will never get a Rolex, but I remain doubtful. There are other watch avenues that interest me more.

The so-called games are what they are, and I certainly don’t agree with or approve of the methodology. Any individual who wants to go via the grey market will have made a judgement call on whether or not they are prepared to stump up the prices being asked. As to those who choose to stand in line, I applaud their patience. Good luck to them. Personally I wouldn’t, but that’s me. There are plenty of fish in the sea, and oranges are not the only fruit. 8)
I may have appeared to miss you out, but I suppose I mentally placed you in the middle group, future owners.

You like Rolex, would have liked to own one, and possibly might in the future. While you don’t state AD behaviour as the reason your passion cooled, you do go on to say you don’t agree or approve of their methodology,

My post was more a generalisation then getting into the detail, hence why I haven’t picked out more groups which are quite niche in the grand scheme of the thread.
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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I like to take a peek at Watchfinder to see what’s on offer, Rolex being my first port of call. Without doubt the asking prices have crept up and in some cases jumped. It doesn’t seem to have dampened enthusiasm at all, in fact the demand for luxury watches has fuelled the success of Watchfinder and Rolex has played its part.
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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Richard D wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:48 am I like to take a peek at Watchfinder to see what’s on offer, Rolex being my first port of call. Without doubt the asking prices have crept up and in some cases jumped. It doesn’t seem to have dampened enthusiasm at all, in fact the demand for luxury watches has fuelled the success of Watchfinder and Rolex has played its part.
And vice-versa, I think. In my opinion, Watchfinder are heavily responsible for the outrageous values of second-hand watches, particularly Rolex. They have turned from a market player into a market maker. Speaking about the UK only, they are almost the reference for used values and if they decide a 2010 Submariner is worth £15k (made up numbers), and they are willing to hold stock for a while, then the rest of the market follows them (eventually).
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Re: Rolex a discussion

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downer wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:03 am
Richard D wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:48 am I like to take a peek at Watchfinder to see what’s on offer, Rolex being my first port of call. Without doubt the asking prices have crept up and in some cases jumped. It doesn’t seem to have dampened enthusiasm at all, in fact the demand for luxury watches has fuelled the success of Watchfinder and Rolex has played its part.
And vice-versa, I think. In my opinion, Watchfinder are heavily responsible for the outrageous values of second-hand watches, particularly Rolex. They have turned from a market player into a market maker. Speaking about the UK only, they are almost the reference for used values and if they decide a 2010 Submariner is worth £15k (made up numbers), and they are willing to hold stock for a while, then the rest of the market follows them (eventually).
Agree.
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Re: Rolex a discussion

Post by Bounce »

Richard D wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:10 am
downer wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:03 am
Richard D wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:48 am I like to take a peek at Watchfinder to see what’s on offer, Rolex being my first port of call. Without doubt the asking prices have crept up and in some cases jumped. It doesn’t seem to have dampened enthusiasm at all, in fact the demand for luxury watches has fuelled the success of Watchfinder and Rolex has played its part.
And vice-versa, I think. In my opinion, Watchfinder are heavily responsible for the outrageous values of second-hand watches, particularly Rolex. They have turned from a market player into a market maker. Speaking about the UK only, they are almost the reference for used values and if they decide a 2010 Submariner is worth £15k (made up numbers), and they are willing to hold stock for a while, then the rest of the market follows them (eventually).
Agree.
Watchfinder used to be good years ago, but I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole now that they have sold out, they lost that personal touch years ago.
I have purchased probably 5 Rolex watches from them in the past & always paid less than retail. In fact I would never ever pay more than retail for a watch, because when you think about it that is what the manufacturer has judged its value should be.
Rolex themselves are not stupid, they know exactly what is going on & they like it. They have seen it happen to PP etc & they like to be classed as unobtainable/desirable.
So bringing this back to Rolex or AD's, again I blame both parties & my views will not change I am afraid.
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Re: Rolex a discussion

Post by magicman »

Just a quick thought, everyone gets excited when someone on antiques roadshow, makes a nice profit on a bit of old tat, because someone has decided it's rare or by the right maker.
But when a professional sales outfit does the same, but with a quality product, it's deemed, horrendous behaviour.
If we visited Auctions, would we find overpriced watches or realistically priced offerings.
It's the people who buy at the ridiculous prices at blame too.

Regarding the previous mention of Bremont, CW and Omega.

Bremont-I like them but they don't do a no date diver/tool watch. Like Rolex do, but if/when they do, it's a brand i would consider.

CW-I think they're great value for money, I own 2 currently, but I wish they would do the C60 trident with no date. Like the Submariner
With the logo #* 12 O'@#&ck.

Omega- I just bought one, no date diver, not limited but special edition, went in for an update on a Rolex, and walked out with the Omega, will it scratch the itch and replace my want and need, only time will tell.

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Re: Rolex a discussion

Post by willttqs »

I do like Rolex watches myself and was fortunate to purchase a couple last year from ADs. it is fair to say that there has been almost no availability of the sort after models this year whatsoever, which is also strange as some stores are now going to be building larger displays / whole parts of their stores dedicated to Rolex watches (Reading store for example) , but not actually having many to sell.
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