Seagull 1963 poor service

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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

It'sAliveJim wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:48 pm Blaming the seller for Brexit. Brilliant :lol:
Please don’t bring politics into it, particularly when you’ve no idea of people’s views. To do so is riven with all sorts of groundless personal assumptions, and I’d hoped this might be a place where we’re mercifully free of them. For clarity, your statement has nothing to do with my point, which is best summarised in two excerpts copied from one website and one invoice:

Seagull 1963 website: “We offer free shipping to all customers worldwide”

DHL Invoice for Seagull 1963 watch: “Total shipping cost: £61.85” and “Retailers (internet or catalogue) will normally include advice about import duties in their shipping information”
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

It'sAliveJim wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:00 pm
MorrisOx wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:35 pm No; the tone of my post is that there had been a change likely to impact on price which I simply wasn’t aware of…
You must have had your head in the sand for the past 5 years then? There has been no change to their selling price. Actually, it should have been cheaper because you won't have been charged tax.

The impact is that you are now expected to pay a 20% tax when you receive the watch in your country, which very recently, in case you missed it, officially left the EU. None of this is the seller's responsibility.
I do respect other people’s perspectives, but there’s no need to make glib asides about me. We’re both entitled to our points of view.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by JAFO »

@MorrisOx

Is the seagull 1863 website part of AliExpress? I mentioned not buying from AliExpress any more, because of the VAT issue, and someone earlier in this thread said AliExpress added VAT at checkout. Did you use AliExpress?
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

JAFO wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:26 pm @MorrisOx

Is the seagull 1863 website part of AliExpress? I mentioned not buying from AliExpress any more, because of the VAT issue, and someone earlier in this thread said AliExpress added VAT at checkout. Did you use AliExpress?
Not to my knowledge, JAFO. It was direct with Seagull 1963, which is based in Antwerp. I’ve just had a look on all the order confirmation/order tracking emails and can’t see any reference to AliExpress.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by A1soknownas »

The website says...

"All watches are shipped from Belgium and therefore shipments to outside of the European Union could have extra charges applied to the depending on the customers location".

I guess they are right in that shipping was free. The VAT isn't. Duties are another thing entirely but as part of the free trade deal they are essentially none existent or around 20p for watches. DHL could have described it better but they effectively collected the VAT charge as part of the shipping process. I am surprised that you received an invoice later as with Royal Mail they will keep the item until you pay all charges.

I sympathise that the tone could be different and some understanding shown from Seagull but in all honesty if I worked for them and someone from the UK complained about charges that are basically as a result of Brexit I would have laughed - but that is why I don't work in Customer Service :lol:

Hope the watch is worth the money you paid and that you enjoy it regardless :thumbup:
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

It does say that…but not at any point on the ‘customer journey’ - the process you go through to actually buy!

The ony reference to cost are price and ‘shipping is free’. Nothing on any subsequent emails, either. So I assumed they’d built all the cost into price. No warning, anywhere in the customer journey, that I might face external charges. And no reason for me to check T&Cs.

I wouldn’t laugh at customers. I’d explain it to them - which is what DHL suggests most websites do (quite possibly because it has been picking up some of the flak!). Seagull 1963 didn’t, and across two email exchanges, clearly didn’t want to tell people, either.

This isn’t about Brexit, understanding the difference between shipping and customs (DHL’s invoice calls it shipping!!), or expecting websites to list a gazillion tariffs. It’s about a simple sentence at point of purchase which says ‘additional charges or duties may apply if you live outside the EU’
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by JAFO »

MorrisOx wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:28 pm
JAFO wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:26 pm @MorrisOx

Is the seagull 1863 website part of AliExpress? I mentioned not buying from AliExpress any more, because of the VAT issue, and someone earlier in this thread said AliExpress added VAT at checkout. Did you use AliExpress?
Not to my knowledge, JAFO. It was direct with Seagull 1963, which is based in Antwerp. I’ve just had a look on all the order confirmation/order tracking emails and can’t see any reference to AliExpress.
Thanks.
I had just googled seagull 1863 and it took me to the seagull shop on AliExpress. I will have another look.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by JAFO »

Sorry my bad. I had searched seagull 1963 not 1863. I must have misread the number when posting. I meant 1963. Anyway my original search took me to AliExpress, but this time I specifically looked for the EU website.

The point about the possible duties is covered in the first 2 FAQs on that site.

I just checked on invictastores.eu, and on the mobile site, the same thing is also hidden away in the small print. (Customs, duties and taxes in deliveries) it's actually a lot harder to find on Invicta than on the seagull site. I think I ordered on the pc website, as the potential for extra costs was definitely clearly stated when I purchased. Maybe I didn't get charged because of the £135 rule.

[edit. I just had another look, and it looks like it's changed at Invicta. There's no banner about extra charges. I just added an item and went to check out, and in my account details there's a highlighted line saying "You may be charged extra duties"]

Compare both of these with serious watches, where the price of watches is clearly reduced by 17.36% it says for non EU customers, in anticipation of us being charged local VAT on import. The FAQs terms explain this clearly on their website.

[edit - In general, I don't think it should be a surprise that we in the UK are being hit by extra charge for VAT. There has been loads in the press about it. There's been lots of discussions on here about it. High Street jewellers are closing airport shops because of these and other changes. They can no longer sell VAT free for export in the way they used to. You now pay VAT on imports from private sellers in the EU and elsewhere. UK traders are saying the changes makes it very hard for them to sell outside the UK. Ebay now add on VAT where necessary. The assumption ought to be that anything coming into the UK attracts a 20% VAT charge. Some retailers discount their prices to remove their own VAT, which is what they should do, I think, as this mitigates that charge, but obviously some do not. ]
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by Lavaine »

I repeat the question above your post: You’re a business. There’s been a change in the regulatory environment in one of your markets which will affect the price your customers pay. Do you tell your customers or make a decision to say nothing?
I own a business. How many hours per day am I expected to spend reviewing the regulatory statutes in 190+ countries, so that I can update my website?

I live in North America, and I am aware of Brexit, and the fact that it impacts VAT charges for items imported from the EU. A little due diligence would have avoided this thread. Caveat Emptor.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

You’ll do what’s necessary to keep your customers happy, I suppose. If you’re operating via a transactional website which trades globally then you might do what DHL suggests and include advice about additional charges in your shipping information.

You don’t need to list individual tariffs. All it takes is simple sentence at the point of purchase which covers all eventualities: ‘additional charges or duties may apply if you live outside the EU’.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by ItsAliveJim »

MorrisOx wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:14 pm
It'sAliveJim wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:48 pm Blaming the seller for Brexit. Brilliant :lol:
Please don’t bring politics into it, particularly when you’ve no idea of people’s views. To do so is riven with all sorts of groundless personal assumptions, and I’d hoped this might be a place where we’re mercifully free of them. For clarity, your statement has nothing to do with my point, which is best summarised in two excerpts copied from one website and one invoice:

Seagull 1963 website: “We offer free shipping to all customers worldwide”

DHL Invoice for Seagull 1963 watch: “Total shipping cost: £61.85” and “Retailers (internet or catalogue) will normally include advice about import duties in their shipping information”

The only thing not clear is if the Belgian/EU tax is removed from the price as it should be for goods sent outside the EU?

Did you pay full price or was the local tax removed before payment? If the former then that's a genuine grievance and a bit cheeky of Seagull 1963, meaning you got hit with a double tax whammy.

Interesting. I wonder what happens if a US customer orders from them?
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

I can’t see any reference to EU taxes on the email invoice. Just shipping, which is listed as zero, so consistent with ‘shipping is free’.

It was the DHL invoice which initially threw me: the £61 was listed on the front page as total shipping costs. Only later in the six-page invoice did it become clear this was £50 in taxes, plus an £11 charge from DHL. Whichever way you look at it, shipping wasn’t free!

I just think it would be so easy for Seagull 1963 to put an ‘additional charges’ warning at the point of sale. Doesn’t hurt anyone, comes across as helpful. But they didn’t want to do it, the reason given just wasn’t plausible…you end up drawing your own conclusions.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by JAFO »

Shipping is free. If there hadn't had been vat to pay, DHL would not have charged you.

When royal mail handle the delivery, they charge 20% vat, plus £8 admin fee. They calculate the vat based on their own conversion rate I think. Although RM are supposed to add on duty and carriage they never seem to. Well I think they work on the declared value on the packaging, actually. Customs can open any package,, but I have never had that happen. I thought there was a small %age duty on watches, but all I have ever been charged is 20% of the goods value plus £8.00
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by Neil b »

AliExpress are changing vat on any price of goods not £135 and above I’ve had 2 items delivered and had no more to pay by Royal Mail also looked at stienheart site a few days
Ago and they are nocking local vat off so you pay vat at this end swings and roundabouts
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

Did wonder about Steinhart, but I’ve bought mine from Chronomaster, who I guess build everything into the selling price because they’re in-stock watches which have already been imported.

Someone should think of doing the same in the UK with Seagull because I’m pretty sure the price from China would be low enough to make a margin even with import duties.
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