Elimination process

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welshlad
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Re: Elimination process

Post by welshlad »

ianblyth wrote:I would prefer that the top three in the two models go straight to a final vote between all 6 model/designs rather than down again to a 1:1. If the C5 Slimline is more popular then that should reflect in the votes. What do others think?
The problem here is that, say, 60% of people could vote for the C5S but split evenly across the three designs, so losing out to a C65 design that was much more popular than the other two C65 designs, taking say 35% of the overall vote, resulting in it winning even though the C5S was the more popular case. Or vice versa.

Also, by going down to a 1:1 head to head, at least the ultimate winner will have one a majority vote.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Kip wrote: There will be 2 groups you will be voting for. The C5 SLM and the C65. Each category will allow you 5 votes with the top 3 vote getters moving to the final round. The final category round as well as the final head to head will allow only 1 vote. The winners in each model category will go head to head (C65 vs C5SLM) to determine the FLE.

You are not required to use all 5 of your votes nor are you required to vote in each category.
My personal feeling is that once a procedure is stated and out there it should be adhered to. Constantly changing the rules or "moving the goalposts" as I put it in my early post serves only to confuse and cause Angst.

To refer to Welshlad's post yesterday evening, yes I was referring to the fact that the original poll was to select one case.

Now, I've said my 2p worth and will now shut up and abide by whatever is decided.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by welshlad »

Kip wrote:For the 2012 vote it was decided by the members to have the C60 Blue as the FLE.
I really hate to bang on about this and cause problems, as I know how hard it is to organise these things and keep everyone happy, but, taking the above quote into account, for the 2015 vote the forum members have ALREADY democratically decided that the C5S should be the FLE. The vote wasn't to decide a shortlist of two cases, it was to decide the one and only case to be used.

Don't get me wrong, I love lots of the C65 designs and I've submitted some myself too, but in my view the C65 can only be entertained as an FLE if Chris decides to repeat his generous offer from 2012 of offering a second model. Having a C5S-based FLE should already be beyond question.
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Berkshire

Re: Elimination process

Post by Berkshire »

As I'm 'stupid' I'm leaving it to the experts to decided.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by Serlo »

Kip wrote: "For now we shall just be voting on the model(s). You may vote for up to 3 to narrow things down."

Narrowing things down does not mean that the C5 is the winner (although I wish it was).
Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: My personal feeling is that once a procedure is stated and out there it should be adhered to. Constantly changing the rules or "moving the goalposts" as I put it in my early post serves only to confuse and cause Angst.

To refer to Welshlad's post yesterday evening, yes I was referring to the fact that the original poll was to select one case.

Now, I've said my 2p worth and will now shut up and abide by whatever is decided.
Angst (why do you only use negative German words?) is being caused by the fact that people feel strongly about one of the models or the size of the upcoming FLE. Well, you cannot please everyone.

The rest is silence :D.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by gatehealing »

Wasn't there some votes for general Mechanical and general Quartz that were made in error? If so, I think that the current plan gives those folks a chance to be heard since it was a very close vote. I think Kip is being pretty clear that this how it is going to be anyway. There is no way to make everybody happy, and from what I hhave heard, past FLE's have had their share of hoo ha's as well, though I have not gone thru each of those threads.

I really don't think anybody is really shooting down the other ideas though--I get the feeling we can all see both sides, we just have some personal preferences on flexibility of initial rules and counting votes that our Psychiatrist has been tasked to make a call on.

Now. Where's my straight jacket?
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Re: Elimination process

Post by welshlad »

gatehealing wrote:Wasn't there some votes for general Mechanical and general Quartz that were made in error? If so, I think that the current plan gives those folks a chance to be heard since it was a very close vote.
There are spoiled ballet papers in every vote. They simply get discarded. Members were told several times not to vote for these categories.
Serlo wrote:Kip wrote: "For now we shall just be voting on the model(s). You may vote for up to 3 to narrow things down."
Yes, but Kip also wrote in the preamble to the vote:
Kip wrote:What model would you like to see used as a basis for the 2015 FLE? We are talking about minor changes here We could, depending on the model, make changes to the crystal, dial color, hands, rotor and dial. Keep in mind that all these things would come at an additional cost to the base price shown.
This clearly implies that we were to decide a single model/case to use. And that was everyone's expectation during the course of the vote too.

I was going to offer an olive branch and write here that, despite my misgivings above, I would happily go along with the majority view - and then the irony hit me: we clearly don't always abide by the majority view! #-o

Also, just to be clear, if the vote had been the other way around, with the C65 winning, I would be saying exactly the same thing about the C65 needing to be the FLE. This is a point of fairness, not because I might prefer the C5S (I like both cases).
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Re: Elimination process

Post by ianblyth »

I see your point but shouldn't it have been said when it was announced both were going forward?
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Re: Elimination process

Post by scooter »

There seems to be some ambiguity about whether or not the first vote was to establish a single or multiple models that we would be taking forward.

Perhaps Kip could confirm the original intention of the first vote so that we can all move forward together.

Either way we need to be united now or problems will simply stack up for future outpourings.

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Re: Elimination process

Post by welshlad »

ianblyth wrote:I see your point but shouldn't it have been said when it was announced both were going forward?
Ideally, but it didn't occur to me at the time. I was too keen to get on with coming up with some designs! :oops:

However, AVO did raise a similar concern at the time, but nobody listened. :(

Nonetheless, nothing much has changed since then - except a lot of C65 designs have been created. But we haven't yet had another vote. We can still put things right.

Or maybe explain to Chris the problem we have created for ourselves and see if he would be willing to help by allowing a C65 too? The worst thing he can say is no, I suppose.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by alphajet »

There will need to be far more members than the 65 who voted for the first poll winner, the C5 slimline, to be committed to this process to make it worth while CW making a 2015 FLE. So just get on with the elimination.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

welshlad wrote: However, AVO did raise a similar concern at the time, but nobody listened. :(
Well, actually my concern was heard but met with a rebuttal. But let's not worry about that. For what it's worth, which is probably no longer a great deal, I am totally behind you on the question of the original vote. I was under the impression, as you were, that the original vote was to decide a single case.

I am sure that the team will sort it out in the way that best fits the requirements of the forum as a whole. However, like you, if the C5S does not get to be produced as a FLE this time, I shall be pretty flipping cross as it clearly won the original vote! :evil:
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Re: Elimination process

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Serlo wrote: Angst (why do you only use negative German words?...)
Sorry, my friend. I wish you Freude und Ruhe. :D
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Re: Elimination process

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Re: Elimination process

Post by Serlo »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote:
Serlo wrote: Angst (why do you only use negative German words?...)
Sorry, my friend. I wish you Freude und Ruhe. :D
That's better! I think we should all listen to Beethoven's ninth symphony and its last movement: "O Freunde, nicht diese Töne, sondern lasst uns andere anstimmen, und freudenvollere! Freude!"

Oh friends, not these sounds!
Let us instead strike up more pleasing
and more joyful ones!
Joy!

Andreas

P.S.: The "you" was not referring to you, Avo, but to the English speaking people in general :D. I think the informal "thou" should be reintroduced so as to avoid misunderstandings.
Andreas