Elimination process

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Re: Elimination process

Post by scooter »

scooter wrote:There seems to be some ambiguity about whether or not the first vote was to establish a single or multiple models that we would be taking forward.

Perhaps Kip could confirm the original intention of the first vote so that we can all move forward together.

Either way we need to be united now or problems will simply stack up for future outpourings.
The reason I wrote the above post was because unlike AVO and welshlad I was under the impression that we were initially voting for the top 3 cases to be taken forward.

I also understood that because the C65 Trident Classic and C5 Slimline were so far ahead of the third placed C3 Malvern Mark II it was decided to take only two forward.

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Re: Elimination process

Post by ddav »

scooter wrote:
scooter wrote:There seems to be some ambiguity about whether or not the first vote was to establish a single or multiple models that we would be taking forward.

Perhaps Kip could confirm the original intention of the first vote so that we can all move forward together.

Either way we need to be united now or problems will simply stack up for future outpourings.
The reason I wrote the above post was because unlike AVO and welshlad I was under the impression that we were initially voting for the top 3 cases to be taken forward.

I also understood that because the C65 Trident Classic and C5 Slimline were so far ahead of the third placed C3 Malvern Mark II it was decided to take only two forward.

scooter
This was something that I took from the final part of Kips opening statement

For now we shall just be voting on the model(s). You may vote for up to 3 to narrow things down
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Re: Elimination process

Post by Goose383 »

I wasn't going to 'chip in' and contribute to the whinging and whining going on in this thread, but alas I feel I have to air my thoughts.

Firstly and mainly I think all of the above comments are completely disrespectful to Kip and those behind the scenes trying to organise an FLE for the members on here. It will have, up to this point taken a lot of their valuable time to try to organise such a fantastic opportunity for the members of this forum, and going forward to get any FLE produced will take a great deal more effort and time by Kip and team and CW.
The thanks they are getting so far are a minority who want to bend the original post to suit their own views, rather than let the majority forum decide.

No where in the original inquiry poll did it state that we was choosing one model to take forward, granted neither did it say there would be two models, you can read it whichever way suits your views.
Kip wrote:
For now we shall just be voting on the model(s). You may vote for up to 3 to narrow things down.

So based on the votes cast two models were chosen by those who are running this project for the forum members.
I don't see any hidden agenda here to suit the views of Kip and the team!

Whilst you can never please everyone, I do think it is very disrespectful to keep asking for clarification of rules when every one is being told openly what the process is, and what stage is coming next.

If I was Kip I would be reading the above comments wondering why I bothered!

A forum Ltd edition can only work if there is a majority backing, if you don't agree with the majority - don't participate.

rant over, apologies if my views are unpopular with other members, but I feel it's important that we should be giving thanks to Kip and the team, not second questioning very decision they make.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by scooter »

I was trying to be helpful actually and find your post extremely disrespectful.

I know Kip well and have met him personally. He will know that I was simply trying to sort out this misunderstanding.

I also have great respect for AVO and welshlad.

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Re: Elimination process

Post by Serlo »

:cheers: This smiley is often used in a German speaking forum and it means that we should all be friends again.

As soon as the forum was asked to come up with ideas for the Slimline and the C65, it was clear to me that we are going to have a vote on all designs. Just think about the time and effort that has gone into these ideas. It's only fair that both cases are up for the upcoming "election" and the one that gets the majority is going to be the FLE.

I don't think that any of the comments are disrespectful, but they might be "discouraging". KIP just wants the FLE to be backed by the majority of potential buyers. Just pick your favourite design and vote for it. Nothing has been decided on yet.

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Re: Elimination process

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

This is a discussion, that's all. No question of disrespect, but on the other hand blind acquiescence is seldom a good thing. All I am saying is that to obtain a democratic outcome, you define the procedure before the vote and you stick by the result.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by Goose383 »

scooter wrote:I was trying to be helpful actually and find your post extremely disrespectful.

I know Kip well and have met him personally. He will know that I was simply trying to sort out this misunderstanding.

I also have great respect for AVO and welshlad.

scooter
I am sorry if you find my post disrespectful, there was none intended, I was purely trying to put my thoughts across as I saw them.

My views were not aimed at any member personally and were observations as a whole so not sure why you have thought to single out specific members.

I have the upmost respect for all members on this forum, and would just like to see the process of a new FLE moving forward rather continuously questioning whats already been done.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Goose, this is as good a time as any to acknowledge the superb work that YOU have done, and I'm sure everyone would back me up on that.

However, this is one bit of the original post to which no one has yet drawn attention.
Kip wrote:We are very interested in your thoughts.
Please note that Kip asked us to state our thoughts, and not to nod sagely and write about how wonderful everything was. I have the utmost respect for Kip as well as for many other people on the forum, but that doesn't mean I can't tell them if I think they're wrong.

As for not participating if you don't agree with the majority (your words, not mine)...that is a bit dangerous. Look at 20th century history. If I live in a safe constituency but support the other party, there's probably technically not a lot of point in my voting, but I will do it all the same. And I will defend to the hilt my right to express my opinion.

Again, I say no disrespect, just disagreement.
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Re: Elimination process

Post by nbg »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote:Goose, this is as good a time as any to acknowledge the superb work that YOU have done, and I'm sure everyone would back me up on that.
+1

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Re: Elimination process

Post by scooter »

Goose

From where I am sitting your post was clearly aimed at certain members and you accused us of being disrespectful to Kip.

That was unfair and totally unwarranted and was why I accused you of being disrespectful.

I'm done here.

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Re: Elimination process

Post by welshlad »

Goose383 wrote:I wasn't going to 'chip in' and contribute to the whinging and whining going on in this thread, but alas I feel I have to air my thoughts.

Firstly and mainly I think all of the above comments are completely disrespectful to Kip and those behind the scenes trying to organise an FLE for the members on here. It will have, up to this point taken a lot of their valuable time to try to organise such a fantastic opportunity for the members of this forum, and going forward to get any FLE produced will take a great deal more effort and time by Kip and team and CW.
The thanks they are getting so far are a minority who want to bend the original post to suit their own views, rather than let the majority forum decide.
Goose, I've got to say I am gobsmacked by your comments. You and I have worked together well on this FLE to contribute designs and draw up ideas for others (albeit you have had far more time to do this lately than me - and a fantastic job you have done too). I am entirely behind this FLE - I just want to make sure we don't inadvertently make it an unfair process. To regard me as part of "a minority who want to bend the original post to suit their own views, rather than let the majority forum decide" is so far off the mark it defies belief! As Kip requested, I have made my comments and suggestions to try to improve the process, not to suit myself. As I said earlier, I would have made the same point if the C65 case had won the vote. Indeed, I would have done whichever case had won the vote.

I know you haven't been around the forum for very long to get to know everyone well yet (although your contribution to the FLE process in that short time has been absolutely immense). But you should know that I am not a "trouble maker". I consistently try to make constructive contributions to the forum. AVO and I were also heavily involved with the FLE Committee for the 2013 FLE, alongside Kip, downer, ianblyth and others, so we know exactly what work is involved in bringing together an FLE, which is why I made clear my pain at making the comments I did.

I would sincerely hope that the guys do not regard my comments as disrespectful and see that I am trying to make a valid point. It may be an awkward point with poor timing (I should have commented straight after the vote), but it is valid - as Ian acknowledged earlier. These guys know that I hold them in the highest esteem and am not commenting just to cause trouble. If they decide, after considering what AVO and I are saying, to continue with the current plan then I have no problem at all with that. But one of the great features of this forum is that people can freely express differing views in a friendly way without fear of moderation, chastisement, banning, etc, as happens on other forums.
Goose383 wrote:I don't see any hidden agenda here to suit the views of Kip and the team!
And no-one suggested there was any hidden agenda.
Goose383 wrote:A forum Ltd edition can only work if there is a majority backing, if you don't agree with the majority - don't participate.
Ironically, the importance of following the majority view is exactly the point I am making!

So, now that I have got that defence of my good name out of the way, can we all go back to being friends, as Serlo suggested, and work together to make the FLE a success. :cheers:
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Re: Elimination process

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Gentlemen, handbags?

Peace please and let's go back to discussing the contenders.

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Re: Elimination process

Post by mabotham »

Right you all have it off your chests..
Let Kip move forward with the process and let's get voting




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Re: Elimination process

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Re: Elimination process

Post by gatehealing »

Yes, Ron Burgandy, enjoy your brew!

Handbags . . . LOL!!! I'll say this, I am glad that we all have this much investment in this. I know we will wind up with a great FLE!

Irony to me is that my last session of the day I was talking to a young guy about how if all he has to worry about is whether his wife buys a Porsche SUV or a BMW SUV, then he is blessed indeed! If we are all doing well enough to be able to spend our dollars and pounds on watches that we get to help design, then we are truly a blessed crew of folks!

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