2013 FLE Progress Report #17

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paw3001
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by paw3001 »

Think you need to re-read some of my posts on CW...I doubt anyone would ever call me defensive on CW.

I just think certain people should be more open minded and fair on each topic rather than continuing to be on the "attack or defense".

The key issue here is that CW produces a LE for this Forum and members have full input into it's design. The build takes longer than anticipated and CW rewards the loyalty of those members who have committed and signed up to the LE. Nothing wrong will that and in fact lots right when you consider the usual customer service stance of many other companies.

In this case, I feel that you are just stirring a pot of pure speculation when you have NO information at all!

Read the Daily Mail much, Robin, as I think you could write for them?
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by Kip »

Kansas City Milkman wrote:Before my time :shock:

What were the price points and how did the variation occur?
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by highway62 »

We do have 1 definite fact regarding the original price & the price still being charged for new orders for the 2013 FLE . The profit margin was/is a minimum of 21% . I may well be naive but I find that a bit surprising given this is a watch being made to reward CW's best customers. This of course assumes that the watch is not being sold at a loss following the recent price cut.
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by robinbarke »

paw3001 wrote:Think you need to re-read some of my posts on CW...I doubt anyone would ever call me defensive on CW.

I just think certain people should be more open minded and fair on each topic rather than continuing to be on the "attack or defense".

The key issue here is that CW produces a LE for this Forum and members have full input into it's design. The build takes longer than anticipated and CW rewards the loyalty of those members who have committed and signed up to the LE. Nothing wrong will that and in fact lots right when you consider the usual customer service stance of many other companies.

In this case, I feel that you are just stirring a pot of pure speculation when you have NO information at all!

Read the Daily Mail much, Robin, as I think you could write for them?
Well, I suppose actions speak louder than words. I was among the first to order a 2013fLE and was very happy to pay £473 for it, recognising the good work of the FLE committee. I was not so keen on the compromise design but decided to leave my order in place. I followed the history of the delays with interest but if you read back over the threads I was not critical, recognising that a growing company has greater priorities than satisfying forum members. The price reduction while welcome would not have been a deal breaker for me, either way.

I am afraid I don't read the Daily Mail. Far too left wing for me!

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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by highway62 »

Now THAT I believe! :lol:
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by robinbarke »

highway62 wrote:We do have 1 definite fact regarding the original price & the price still being charged for new orders for the 2013 FLE . The profit margin was/is a minimum of 21% . I may well be naive but I find that a bit surprising given this is a watch being made to reward CW's best customers. This of course assumes that the watch is not being sold at a loss following the recent price cut.
An interesting supposition. You may have noticed that further up the thread I have been accused of not understanding these things. Without wishing to be too controversial I would suggest that CW has no idea of the actual profit margin of any of the individual pieces. To get to the precise figure would involve costs that could not be justified!

Robin
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See my book, Aynho Junction, in the News section of http://www.robinbarkerphotography.com
highway62

Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by highway62 »

I would find it very odd if a company was unaware of the profit made on each item sold...
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by Helix Von Smelix »

highway62 wrote:I would find it very odd if a company was unaware of the profit made on each item sold...
Yup, they're not British Leyland :silent:
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by welshlad »

robinbarke wrote:Without wishing to be too controversial I would suggest that CW has no idea of the actual profit margin of any of the individual pieces.
That has to be the most ridiculously naive statement I've read on this forum. Ever.

Almost as naive earlier is your assumption that price is directly related to cost (hence your comparison to the C10). Other than for commodities in a perfectly competitive market, price is not directly linked to cost at all. Rather price is the level at which profits are maximised, taking into account how demand varies at different pricing levels and the margin made at different pricing levels. The demand profile for the C10 and the FLE will be completely different as one is an open edition to the public and one is a limited edition for forum members only. So even if the costs are similar for each model (which they won't be, as explained by others above) the price will be different.

I suspect you know both these things, as a retired bank director, so you are just trying to stir up some artificial controversy, as usual (and as you more or less admitted in another thread recently). Tiresome trolling.
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by rcherryuk »

robinbarke wrote:Some of you guys are forever on the defensive when it comes to CW. All the design and production cost that you so rightly mention have been built into the price of the C10. I am sure there will be a number of variations to this watch over the years and I expect that the price will be in the same region as the present C10 otherwise they will not sell. The FLE is one such variation where in fact the design effort has been born admirably by the FLE committee and from the consumers viewpoint it is reasonable to expect the prices to be in the same region. The limited edition would indicate a small premium but I doubt the present C10 sales are particularly buoyant as they are in the present sale.

Robin
Robin,
I'm defending CWL in the same way you are attacking them! My comment was meant to remind you of the processes involved but I don't think you care too much for the other viewpoint.
The design work done by the committee is nowhere near as involved as the production design work done by both CWL, the component 'factors' and their atelier who will have to be able to assemble, regulate, and service the end result.

Do you think your comments make you the forum's conscience? or do you think you're just playing 'devil's advocate' ?
To be totally frank it comes across as petty sniping, and I think you should 'rise above' these very cheap tricks.

You may not read the Daily Mail (Daily Express maybe?) but you write like a Daily Mail journo sometimes.
Rob

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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by robinbarke »

welshlad wrote:
robinbarke wrote:Without wishing to be too controversial I would suggest that CW has no idea of the actual profit margin of any of the individual pieces.
That has to be the most ridiculously naive statement I've read on this forum. Ever.

Almost as naive earlier is your assumption that price is directly related to cost (hence your comparison to the C10). Other than for commodities in a perfectly competitive market, price is not directly linked to cost at all. Rather price is the level at which profits are maximised, taking into account how demand varies at different pricing levels and the margin made at different pricing levels. The demand profile for the C10 and the FLE will be completely different as one is an open edition to the public and one is a limited edition for forum members only. So even if the costs are similar for each model (which they won't be, as explained by others above) the price will be different.

I suspect you know both these things, as a retired bank director, so you are just trying to stir up some artificial controversy, as usual (and as you more or less admitted in another thread recently). Tiresome trolling.
Welshlad I will try not to emulate your rudeness. To establish the true margin on each piece would be extremely difficult especially as not only are the production costs variable but so is the cost of the five year unlimited warranty. And all the vagaries associated with it. Do, for example you build in the same after sales costs for the C60 as the C9. How do you recognise that liability in your margins. That is just one example to give you something to think about. If you really think I am trying to stir up unwarranted controversy don't respond.

Robin
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by Kip »

If any company doesn't know what their margin is, good bad or indifferent, they will not be in business very long. Not knowing the cost of goods does not allow you to set a proper selling price to make a minimum profit.

Without a profit I become a non-profit organization covered by different laws. :)
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by robinbarke »

rcherryuk wrote:
robinbarke wrote:Some of you guys are forever on the defensive when it comes to CW. All the design and production cost that you so rightly mention have been built into the price of the C10. I am sure there will be a number of variations to this watch over the years and I expect that the price will be in the same region as the present C10 otherwise they will not sell. The FLE is one such variation where in fact the design effort has been born admirably by the FLE committee and from the consumers viewpoint it is reasonable to expect the prices to be in the same region. The limited edition would indicate a small premium but I doubt the present C10 sales are particularly buoyant as they are in the present sale.

Robin
Robin,
I'm defending CWL in the same way you are attacking them! My comment was meant to remind you of the processes involved but I don't think you care too much for the other viewpoint.
The design work done by the committee is nowhere near as involved as the production design work done by both CWL, the component 'factors' and their atelier who will have to be able to assemble, regulate, and service the end result.

Do you think your comments make you the forum's conscience? or do you think you're just playing 'devil's advocate' ?
To be totally frank it comes across as petty sniping, and I think you should 'rise above' these very cheap tricks.

You may not read the Daily Mail (Daily Express maybe?) but you write like a Daily Mail journo sometimes.
Rob nowhere am I attacking CW. I am simply putting forward my views on what I perceive as some misconceptions on the forum. I recognise there are costs associated with production of all watches and you have outlined where they lie. I do not see why they should be significantly different for the FLE than other similar watches in the range, that is all. Presumably by way of example, the ladies watches are the subject to the same costs that you have outlined but I remember quite recently some in the sale at £52.50. And many around £100.00. Just adds a little perspective in my view.

Robin
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Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by robinbarke »

Kip wrote:If any company doesn't know what their margin is, good bad or indifferent, they will not be in business very long. Not knowing the cost of goods does not allow you to set a proper selling price to make a minimum profit.

Without a profit I become a non-profit organization covered by different laws. :)
Of course. That's a world away from knowing the margin on each piece within a range.

Robin
C9GMT C8 Mk 1 C5 Malvern 2011 C9FLE C50 Malvern COSC C60 FLE2012 2013FLE
Oris Big Crown, Hublot, Rolex Datejust, Nomos Tangomat.


See my book, Aynho Junction, in the News section of http://www.robinbarkerphotography.com
highway62

Re: 2013 FLE Progress Report #17

Post by highway62 »

robinbarke wrote:
welshlad wrote:
robinbarke wrote:Without wishing to be too controversial I would suggest that CW has no idea of the actual profit margin of any of the individual pieces.
That has to be the most ridiculously naive statement I've read on this forum. Ever.

Almost as naive earlier is your assumption that price is directly related to cost (hence your comparison to the C10). Other than for commodities in a perfectly competitive market, price is not directly linked to cost at all. Rather price is the level at which profits are maximised, taking into account how demand varies at different pricing levels and the margin made at different pricing levels. The demand profile for the C10 and the FLE will be completely different as one is an open edition to the public and one is a limited edition for forum members only. So even if the costs are similar for each model (which they won't be, as explained by others above) the price will be different.

I suspect you know both these things, as a retired bank director, so you are just trying to stir up some artificial controversy, as usual (and as you more or less admitted in another thread recently). Tiresome trolling.
Welshlad I will try not to emulate your rudeness. To establish the true margin on each piece would be extremely difficult especially as not only are the production costs variable but so is the cost of the five year unlimited warranty. And all the vagaries associated with it. Do, for example you build in the same after sales costs for the C60 as the C9. How do you recognise that liability in your margins. That is just one example to give you something to think about. If you really think I am trying to stir up unwarranted controversy don't respond.

Robin
Such very thin skin. :lol: