Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
- Amor Vincit Omnia
- Moderator
- Posts: 33795
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:34 pm
- CW-watches: 4
- Location: Norfolk, UK
Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
Sometimes when we hear or read criticism of a particular watch, it is because it falls into one of four categories.
The replica or fake. We all know what that is. We don’t discuss them here.
The copy. The difference being that it appears to carry all (or most of) the external features of a desirable and usually much more expensive watch, with the exception of the brand name.
The homage. A bit more subtle, this one. It has some recognisable features that are found on what is again usually a desirable and more expensive watch. The more of these features it has, the more it is likely to be seen as a copy as opposed to a stylistic “nod to”.
And then we have the generic watch. I’ve seen this used more and more (and will confess I have used the term myself) to describe watches that seem to adhere to a set pattern with little deviation. I’ve noticed that the two styles that seem to be in vogue (and therefore often criticised) are the generic diver and the generic dress watch. Both seem to be particularly popular with Kickstarter companies.
OK, so here’s the question. Is it possible nowadays, with so much available, to produce a relatively normal and reasonably priced watch that could not be accused of falling into any of those four (well, the last three at least) categories? I think some of the experimental haute-horlogerie watchmakers such as MB&F achieve that, but is it still possible for the rest of the world?
The replica or fake. We all know what that is. We don’t discuss them here.
The copy. The difference being that it appears to carry all (or most of) the external features of a desirable and usually much more expensive watch, with the exception of the brand name.
The homage. A bit more subtle, this one. It has some recognisable features that are found on what is again usually a desirable and more expensive watch. The more of these features it has, the more it is likely to be seen as a copy as opposed to a stylistic “nod to”.
And then we have the generic watch. I’ve seen this used more and more (and will confess I have used the term myself) to describe watches that seem to adhere to a set pattern with little deviation. I’ve noticed that the two styles that seem to be in vogue (and therefore often criticised) are the generic diver and the generic dress watch. Both seem to be particularly popular with Kickstarter companies.
OK, so here’s the question. Is it possible nowadays, with so much available, to produce a relatively normal and reasonably priced watch that could not be accused of falling into any of those four (well, the last three at least) categories? I think some of the experimental haute-horlogerie watchmakers such as MB&F achieve that, but is it still possible for the rest of the world?
Steve
Linguist; retired teacher; pilgrim; apprentice travel writer
Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. (Max Ehrmann)
Linguist; retired teacher; pilgrim; apprentice travel writer
Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. (Max Ehrmann)
- village
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 5554
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:10 pm
- CW-watches: 4
- Location: any further South and my feet would be wet...
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
In my opinion it’s basically impossible these days. There are only so many designs and pretty much everything can be said to have a nod or a wink to something or other. Some (much) more than others. This seems to be born out by the increasing amounts of re-issues that have appeared over recent times.
Disclaimer- with the obvious exception of haute-horologie & experimental watches which are ridiculously priced.
Disclaimer- with the obvious exception of haute-horologie & experimental watches which are ridiculously priced.
If you can read this you are too close to your computer screen....
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
Is it technically possible? Yes
Is it commercially possible? Probably not.
The watch world is quite conservative and any company looking to produce something a little different needs to accept it won’t appeal to many. Most people have just one watch, if they have one at all. Designs a little different will really only ever appeal to those who want such a thing. That pool of people is getting ever smaller.
Is it commercially possible? Probably not.
The watch world is quite conservative and any company looking to produce something a little different needs to accept it won’t appeal to many. Most people have just one watch, if they have one at all. Designs a little different will really only ever appeal to those who want such a thing. That pool of people is getting ever smaller.
Iain’s Law: Any discussion on the Christopher Ward forum, irrespective of the thread title or subject matter, will eventually lead to someone mentioning the Bel Canto if the thread continues for long enough.
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
Yes. I’d look to the German brands, Sinn in particular.
Tim
- Thunder1
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 4131
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:39 pm
- CW-watches: 12
- Location: Dripping Springs, Tx.
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
Ebel has been doing it for decades..
Ebels are a lot like women that lack a lowcut dress that zips up the side..neither gets the love that they deserve..
- magicman
- Trusted Seller
- Posts: 3880
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:45 pm
- CW-watches: 2
- Location: Loughton, Essex
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
I know this is a standard shape and style, but it certainly stuck out when I was scrolling through the Squale website.
Regards Steve
Regards Steve
Selling Tudor Pelagos 39
- missF
- CW Forum Poet Laureate
- Posts: 11866
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:59 pm
- CW-watches: 3
- Location: Edinburgh
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
There’s so much packed into this question. It was spinning my head a bit. Thankfully Iain has wrapped up pretty much everything I was wanting to say!iain wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:54 pm Is it technically possible? Yes
Is it commercially possible? Probably not.
The watch world is quite conservative and any company looking to produce something a little different needs to accept it won’t appeal to many. Most people have just one watch, if they have one at all. Designs a little different will really only ever appeal to those who want such a thing. That pool of people is getting ever smaller.
But I don’t think there’s any cause for thinking that watches have nowhere to go now. The challenges are still there. Perhaps there’s really nothing new under the sun when it comes to the separate design elements of a watch, but using them together in novel or interesting ways is still a challenge worth exploring.
I am someone who likes my watches to be slightly different. Whatever that means. And it’s still perfectly possible to get completely original watches. It’s just that they would be classed as novelty watches :
I love this watch, but as Iain said, it wouldn’t really do the job of a one watch. But I think that for me the interest lies as you head from this watch back along a line towards more conservative watches. As you go, the constraints and therefore challenges of producing something non-generic get greater. And so I find that I’m more interested in the watches closer to the ‘centre’ that still bust out into new territory.
The individual design elements on my CW / W+W sandstorm are not new but added together produce the most interesting watch I’ve come across. Perhaps what created the non-generic final product was that they took their design inspiration not from a previous watch or style of watches, but from a pretty vague brief about racing cars across deserts. I think that new areas of inspiration (such as ocean plastic for example) are going to keep inspiring non-generic watch designs into the future.
Erm, I’m sure there’s plenty more to say about this! I find it really interesting- the heart of what I love about watches.
watching you fail in your quest for a “one watch” has been great entertainment
Watchaholic
‘Imprudently spendy’
Thomcat00
Watchaholic
‘Imprudently spendy’
Thomcat00
- watchaholic
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 1909
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:28 am
- CW-watches: 4
- Location: NE North Dakota, USA
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
I would nominate this one. I can't think of anything else like it, though I may be proven wrong. That it was so different was one of the main reasons I purchased it. Why it was discontinued, I have NO idea.
Time and money? I’ve spent most of mine on booze and women. The rest I just wasted…
Dwight
Dwight
- strapline
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 2328
- Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 3:00 pm
- CW-watches: 0
- Location: SW Ireland
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
I couldn't agree with Ian more. In this day and age watches seem like an old, analogue tech, which essentially they are. And, far from that being their stumbling block, it's their appeal. If you're in the market for a little of this 'old tech', no let's call it 'bygone tech', you're probably actively seeking out the designs from those bygone era's that seem so valid and appealing today. Those designs have been borne out by father time itself, they have been deemed classic by their buying public. Far from familiarity breeding contempt, it breeds longing, or that's how it appears to me at least.missF wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:58 pmThere’s so much packed into this question. It was spinning my head a bit. Thankfully Iain has wrapped up pretty much everything I was wanting to say!iain wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:54 pm Is it technically possible? Yes
Is it commercially possible? Probably not.
The watch world is quite conservative and any company looking to produce something a little different needs to accept it won’t appeal to many. Most people have just one watch, if they have one at all. Designs a little different will really only ever appeal to those who want such a thing. That pool of people is getting ever smaller.
Des
Does melancholy count as two of your five daily servings?
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
I'm sure I have a few that would meet the criteria. My Versace DV25 must have a good shout.
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
Im starting to feel like im on commision for these guys BUT IM NOT!!!
They maybe only fall down on 'reasonably priced' but thats a broad bracket I think...!
Valjoux 7750 movement in this model so its thicker than all the others, but the case shape is a constant through the range.
They maybe only fall down on 'reasonably priced' but thats a broad bracket I think...!
Valjoux 7750 movement in this model so its thicker than all the others, but the case shape is a constant through the range.
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
I suppose that watch is an example of the point I was making earlier. CW produce something a little different, it doesn’t appeal to a wide range of people, they discontinue it as it wasn’t a commercial success. I would also put the bold case design of the motorsport range in the same bracket. I loved the design, just not enough to buy one.watchaholic wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:05 pm I would nominate this one. I can't think of anything else like it, though I may be proven wrong. That it was so different was one of the main reasons I purchased it. Why it was discontinued, I have NO idea.
20190623_162920.jpg
Will this experience stop them from taking innovative steps again? We’ll have to wait and see.
Iain’s Law: Any discussion on the Christopher Ward forum, irrespective of the thread title or subject matter, will eventually lead to someone mentioning the Bel Canto if the thread continues for long enough.
- Amor Vincit Omnia
- Moderator
- Posts: 33795
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:34 pm
- CW-watches: 4
- Location: Norfolk, UK
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
Some interesting replies so far – thanks to everyone.
Although I always claim to like things that are a bit left field, I suspect my tastes are really quite conservative and I’m probably happy with things that are fairly generic, if that’s the right term. I’m fairly quick to brand certain products as generic, especially kickstarter dive watches for some reason.
Although I always claim to like things that are a bit left field, I suspect my tastes are really quite conservative and I’m probably happy with things that are fairly generic, if that’s the right term. I’m fairly quick to brand certain products as generic, especially kickstarter dive watches for some reason.
Steve
Linguist; retired teacher; pilgrim; apprentice travel writer
Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. (Max Ehrmann)
Linguist; retired teacher; pilgrim; apprentice travel writer
Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. (Max Ehrmann)
-
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 4110
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:50 pm
- CW-watches: 2
- Location: Hampshire, UK
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
Halios are one small brand doing their own thing, and I commend them for it. CW have unique pieces, but then they make good money from homages too.
Re: Not a replica, not a copy, not a homage, not generic?
Whether my most recent watches fall within any of the above categories they certainly are different. I guess ‘different’ is what I enjoy adding to my collection especially if the watch has a strong background story.
Richard
‘A gas station owned by Harland Sanders was the site of the first KFC in 1930. Motorists were served fried chicken at his own dining-room table.’
‘A gas station owned by Harland Sanders was the site of the first KFC in 1930. Motorists were served fried chicken at his own dining-room table.’
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 0 Replies
- 239 Views
-
Last post by TMW