Discussion: Maturing as a collector

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Noush
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Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by Noush »

I'd really like this thread to be about sharing stories. I know I would learn a lot and guess many others would too.
It's a long train trip home from Sydney city, where all the cool watches are, with plenty of time to contemplate the experience.

Yesterday I had my Grail on my wrist - Cartier Santos Medium (35mm) Automatic. Did it disappoint? No. If the money was there "ready to spend", would I have spent it? Equally no. Is it still my Grail? I need to mature as a collector. How so?

When I first started on this journey, I was a bit precious / protective of them, being honest. Today I am far more relaxed about them, I wear and enjoy them: if they pick up the odd scuff, that is patina. I'm careful yes, that is me with anything, but not more than that I think.

There's two things about the Santos I need to get my head around.
Whilst I understand such a watch doesn't need to be value in the general sense, I do think it is over-priced. Compared with my BB58, it goes for double the money. Hmmm...
That wide, sweeping, polished bezel seems to show smudges just looking at it. Every reviewer calls it a scratch magnet, and it probably is.
The good news: Teddy Baldasarre picked the Santos as his Daily Driver in his video picking a USD25k 5-watch collection in 30 minutes at an AD. At the time I thought that odd. In person, not so. It's more stylish than "precious" for sure. A very good thing.

It will be next year before this kind of money can be allocated to a watch. In that time, my existing collection will mature and patinate some more, and I will get my head around the above in terms of the Santos as a watch "in rotation".
Yeah, I need to mature as a collector.

So what are your stories about growing into this obsession that we share?
Chris
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Interesting topic.

When I started out I imagined that my journey would not progress beyond the odd CW. (Stage 2)

I became a bit indiscriminate for a while, especially with regard to cheaper vintage watches (^Stage 3/4 - q.v.)

I went though several phases of likes and dislikes, but the arrival of a Nomos in 2012 aroused the beginnings of a desire to acquire more upmarket brands. I had long admired Cartier and used part of a legacy to obtain my Tank in 2016. I had owned a couple of Omegas, and a further legacy allowed me to purchase the Speedy in 2017.

Nowadays I'm not actively looking for much, though when I did volunteer a tentative idea about something left-field, the UN appeared like an express train and I didn't hesitate. I'm in Stage 6 and quite happy now, though a trip back to Stage 5 might be necessary to offload some of the less worn ones after a review. :D
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by jkbarnes »

As a peruse this forum, I’m constantly giving thought to what type of collector I am. And I think the answer (at the moment) is that I’m not. I’m simply not in a position to build up a collection of a whole host of watches, for a variety of reasons - finances, a wife who might not be on board with it, a realization about myself and practicality. I’ll elaborate:

Finances: this one’s easy. I just don’t have the money to buy all the watches I’d love to own. Related to this, I’d have a hard time coming to grips with spending big sums of money on a watch even if I did have it.

My wife: it’s not the money. As I’m sure long time forum members are tired of hearing, my fist CW was a wedding gift from my wife. Any additional watch is seen by her as lessening the significance of the one she gave me. I was quite surprised she was cool with me getting the C65 AM GT LE. I prepared a whole argument in favor of it. As it is, there’s only one watch I wear when we’re together.

Realizations about myself: I have a collector’s mentality, and that’s dangerous. What I mean by that is that I can easily get consumed by the action and the chase while losing sight of the thing. I’ve done with with guitars that now hang from my wall but hardly get played. I’ve done it with cameras. I did this for awhile with coins, where’d I’d buy the new releases from the US Mint every year - proof sets, uncirculated sets, silver dollar, commemorative dollars, etc. If this was 15 years ago, I’d be doing it with watches - “I need a diver, a pilot, a chronograph, a dress, etc.”

Practicality: I want to wear what I own regularly. Too many watches would mean too much sitting in a watch box unworn. As it is, with the mere five I have, some consistently don’t get worn.

So that’s where I am. I’m not sure if this is the kind of story you were looking for.

Final thought, in terms of a grail, I’d love to commemorate my retirement in three years with a JLC Reverso. I’ve reconciled that desire with three of the four factors I described. I’m going to start grooming my wife for it.
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by EcosseOz »

As someone who has had an interest in watches since an early age, during my time I've learned, Tag Heuer is overpriced ordinary, Rolex is absolute overpriced ordinary and Cartier is mugs parting with their money far too easily.

There are so many better watches on the market from brands whose watches don't have 70%+ of their RRP (see above) as the advertising budget. My Breitling was a gift, a unique watch, but also part of the overpriced brigade if I was too be real.

In reality, the finest watches are those inherited (my 3 Omegas) but a holy grail for me, is the watch I have sitting on my wrist 24/7, as I never have a watch off my wrist and haven't done so for over 40yrs.
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

EcosseOz wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:02 pm ...Cartier is mugs parting with their money far too easily.
I'm so glad you keep reminding my that my overall best-performing watch over the last 5 years (easily - hands down) is such rubbish.

Keep it up. I might actually end up believing you one day. :D
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by Richard D »

EcosseOz wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:02 pmTag Heuer is overpriced ordinary, Rolex is absolute overpriced ordinary and Cartier is mugs parting with their money far too easily.
Clearly I know nothing of watches or indeed collecting. :lol:
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by nbg »

Noush wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:17 am When I first started on this journey, I was a bit precious / protective of them, being honest. Today I am far more relaxed about them, I wear and enjoy them: if they pick up the odd scuff, that is patina. I'm careful yes, that is me with anything, but not more than that I think.
Correct answer. :thumbup:

If you are not prepared to wear a watch and risk it being scratched don’t buy it.

Unless of course you are the type of collector that just genuinely buys to admire, but not wear. However that is a different type of collector to the person that seeks out must have watches and only wears them in the home sitting on their sofa.
Noush wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:17 am There's two things about the Santos I need to get my head around.
Whilst I understand such a watch doesn't need to be value in the general sense, I do think it is over-priced. Compared with my BB58, it goes for double the money. Hmmm...
All of us have a point at which we think “enough is enough” price wise. There is no rational thought process involved. Just be aware of “mission creep” over the years, as the price you justify to yourself as reasonable, may continue to climb!

This may be a concern if many years down the track, an “expert” tells you that many of the watches you have bought over the years are “absolute overpriced ordinary”. :lol:

At the end of the day my best advice for expensive watches is:

Try them on. Try them on again. Wait a while and if you still think it is the watch you really want - go back and buy it. Trying on numerous watches from numerous brands also helps you to know when some folk talk nonsense, without facts to back up their views. :wink:

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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by H0rati0 »

Likewise I cannot contribute much to maturing as a collector as I am not a collector, I am a wearer.

Having said that, I do have some watches that I don't wear at all and some that these days do not get worn because I cannot currently indulge in the activities they were bought to support, eg diving and sailing. Rationally I probably still have too many, though I don't feel much of a need to part with any.

However, all my watches have been bought for a specific wearing rationale and that means that quite a few watches I really admire (read would like to "collect") will never find a place in my stable - more's the pity!
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by scooter »

EcosseOz wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:02 pm As someone who has had an interest in watches since an early age, during my time I've learned, Tag Heuer is overpriced ordinary, Rolex is absolute overpriced ordinary and Cartier is mugs parting with their money far too easily.
Nothing quite beats a good old inflammatory post to get the juices flowing.

Luckily over the years I've learnt to roll my eyes, smile to myself and keep my powder dry until a post worthy of rebuttal comes along.

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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by strapline »

This is interesting, particularly your thoughts to the Santos when you got to meet it in the flesh. My feelings about watch buying change all the time. But two constants that always remain: I have to be satisfying my tastes and not popular or mainstream watch opinion; and two, I have to be able to wear the watches without fear or reservation. I've come to realise that I do have an appreciation for luxury watches, but I'm really not sure I can square the notion with myself on a number of levels.

I'll stick with the gorgeous Santos as an example. I think I'd love to own that watch, but it's around £6.5k. I'm just not sure I'd be comfortable spending that on a watch and, if I did, would I still be able wear it and adhere to my second constant above. There's a morality issue for me also, so I certainly know I'll never be what is coined a collector. When I see all the inequality in the world and those going without the basics, I'm just not sure I feel happy with what is essentially a very luxurious item.

Whatever my very small collection becomes over the years, I never want to have more watches than can get a regular run out. I also don't want to have a standout favourite, one that commands more wrist time than the others, thus resigning the others to the watch box for unduly long periods. I think in the last couple of years I've arrived at a sum of money (for me most importantly) that defines luxury, and I'm happy to pick away at some of the gorgeous, well-made offerings that lie therein. Quite simply, I think I may have found my lane and, for now, I'm happy to stay in it.

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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by Noush »

strapline wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:11 am When I see all the inequality in the world and those going without the basics, I'm just not sure I feel happy with what is essentially a very luxurious item.
You make a fine point, Des. I like to think "I do my bit" generally, but it's a point well made.
A time will come when money is in the can and a decision can be made rather than speculated about. Does the Grail remain just that or does it appear on my wrist? And that is very much part of what maturing as a collector means as well.

Apart from that, the responses have been very interesting and I do hope there will be many more!
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by missF »

I think that I matured as a watchy person when I developed rotation anxiety and decided to hone down my collection and do some selling.

I reached 12 watches and this was way too many for me. By nature I enjoy wearing a single watch for long periods of time (well, long by forum standards anyway!). I reached a point where I was overwhelmed. I was aware that some watches didn’t get worn at all, but only vaguely. I’d lost track of what it is I like and enjoy about watches.

Looking back, I think that part of what led to this situation was skinny wrist syndrome. When you have skinny wrists there are only a reduced subset of watches to choose from. Many of the watches I accumulated were there simply because they fit, and not necessarily because they were keepers. Of course, when you’re starting out it also takes time and experience to be able to buy with more confidence that you’re buying what you like and what suits you.

At this point the best thing I’ve done as a watchy person was to run a couple of experiments- wearing a small subset of my collection exclusively for a month at a time. This helped to solidify my feelings for those watches, but also flagged up which of the others I was missing.

There was a niggling issue as I honed my thinking down to keeping just three watches, and that was my C11. My first proper watch, and one that had seen me through difficult times. Hugely sentimental and a gorgeous watch, but never worn for being too big. Once I decided to sell the space was there to truly pick and choose my small wearable collection. I’ve never regretted selling the C11.

Finally, as is the way of these things, a couple of twists and turns upended a large part of my planning anyway! In the end I have only kept 2 of the 12 - the LLD36 and the Oris big crown pointer date. Added to that have been the CW sandstorm and the CW C63 auto.

I’m so happy with my small but perfectly formed collection now. So much so that I currently have an empty slot in my watch box - but in spite of trawling through every 38mm watch I can find I’m content to leave it empty until something a little more perfect for my needs comes along.

It’s definitely a journey of discovery!
(And apologies for writing an essay! :lol: )
watching you fail in your quest for a “one watch” has been great entertainment
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Reading and rereading this and similar threads, I am forced to come up with two conclusions. I think I have understood this deepdown for a while now, but I have been reluctant to admit it to myself.
  • 1. I will never be a One-Watch guy.
  • 2. This is what I have been reluctant to admit: I probably now have a fairly perfect core collection, and simply too many nice watches sitting there in the box and never being worn.
There may be one more significant purchase to come in the near future (or maybe not). But there will certainly be some sales activity. I have a horribly busy two weeks coming up (for a supposedly retired person! :lol: ) But after that I may start to infiltrate the market, so to speak.
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by 0uatiOW »

^^ I’m inclined to say that it’s better to have one empty space in the watch box than one too many watches to fit in.

I had a clear out last year, sold 11 watches. I also bought a smaller quantity but generally higher value, which left me with a modest outlay of about £600, but feeling better about my now smaller collection. I’ve always been careful about purchases, so buyer’s regret wasn’t something I’d experienced often, and all the watches I sold bar one were only let go reluctantly & with some sadness.

A couple of years ago I started to apply very rigid criteria to my watch buys, looking for reasons, any reason, to rule out a purchase. I had bought so many watches that I simply had to find a way to slow down.

I now limit myself to Swiss automatic movements, not because there’s anything wrong with a Japanese or quartz movements (errr… I broke that last rule last month….), but because I needed to find a way to reduce the field of opportunity. I may relax this rule at some later date as my tastes change, if indeed they do, but as a general rule I’m an accidental buyer, I tend to buy when I see I something I like rather than hunting for a specific model or brand.

The other neat trick I apply is to seek out any single feature which doesn’t please me 100%, and that rules it out for me. The colour isn’t perfect, the hands aren’t sharp enough, the date window is in the wrong place, the dial balance is too uneven, the chapter ring too thick, the font, logo, even the name. It’s worked for me, and I have found myself resisting watches which check 9 out of 10 boxes, but the elusive 10th is my reason to step back. This approach leaves cash in the watch bank, so when the perfect watch comes along, I don’t have to liquidate the funds before I can pounce. And, despite placing a huge number of excellent watches out of bounds, there’s still more than enough to bankrupt me.
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Re: Discussion: Maturing as a collector

Post by JAFO »

@missf

Lindsey, I doubt you have skinny wrists. I imagine you have in truth smaller delicate feminine wrists, similar to my wife. Pretty well all men's/unisex watches are probably going to be "oversized" for you, if you will, and it's a matter of taste whether you like that look, and the more make design cues.

My wife's older watches were tiny things, probably only 20mm or so which used to be standard. The current fashion watch styles she has (Radley and similar, and all quartz) are somewhat bigger, say from 28mm up to 34mm. I have persuaded her to get a couple of "proper" automatic watches, an Eterna and a Tissot, also in that size range.

You see a lot of pictures nowadays of women wearing larger watches, 35 to 40mm or even larger, and it's definitely a different look appreciated by some.

Whenever I suggest that my wife tries on a smaller man's watch, say 37 to 38mm that I think she might like, she isn't keen at all, and prefers the more decorative styles she has.

I think in some ways this is all similar to the attempt to persuade men to down size watches below 40mm. I just feel 40mm is my lower limit for choice, and that loss of a 1mm or so still makes a difference. I just don't want 39mm or smaller just for the sake of it.
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