Thoughts on microbrands

Here you can post stuff that is not related to Christopher Ward
User avatar
missF
CW Forum Poet Laureate
CW Forum Poet Laureate
Posts: 11866
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:59 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: Edinburgh

Thoughts on microbrands

Post by missF »

I’m interested to hear your thoughts and experiences on micro brands. Have you experienced good vfm, a willingness to go beyond the more conservative designs of higher end companies? What for you are the benefits of micro brands??

I have just bought a Traska summiteer sports watch. A three hander, no date, so slightly new territory. And I’m curious to know what I’m going to get! The watch was v favourably reviewed by W+W and on paper looks like you get a lot for your money. I had thought that I was going to buy a bb36, but couldn’t find enough to convince me - at that price point...

https://wornandwound.com/review/review- ... summiteer/
CA0ACFD9-F9BD-428A-A066-7FE00BB0B1A7.jpeg
watching you fail in your quest for a “one watch” has been great entertainment
Watchaholic

‘Imprudently spendy’
Thomcat00
User avatar
iain
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 3114
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:13 pm
CW-watches: 1

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by iain »

My only experience with micro brands has been with Zelos and I’ve had a few of them.

What stops me paying much for them is the thought about whether they’ll still be around in a few years time. If you buy a watch from an established brand, you know you should be able to get it serviced or repaired years from now.

I know many use generic movements, and I expect crystals, bezel springs and seals will be standard sized items so could be sourced if possible. However I don’t personally know of any watch makers who would work on these watches that I could go to if needed.

This stops me going in too deep. I’m happy to pay £200-£300 for a good looking watch with a Seiko NH35 movement, but paying £800+ for watches with an ETA inside is beyond my comfort zone with companies I may not be able to call on if needed down the line.
Iain’s Law: Any discussion on the Christopher Ward forum, irrespective of the thread title or subject matter, will eventually lead to someone mentioning the Bel Canto if the thread continues for long enough.
User avatar
Thegreyman
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 12066
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm
CW-watches: 6
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by Thegreyman »

My only real experience of a microbrand (and I think we can agree CW are not in that bracket, although maybe were back in the day!) is buying a Halios Seaforth a couple of years back. There was the disadvantage of buying from essentially a one man band that the date for production and delivery of the watch was a bit haphazard and it ended up being a few months late. The movement is an ETA 2824 so should be fairly easily worked on by any competent watchmaker. I'd expect that applies to most microbrands who normally only use a small range of generic movements such as the NH35 etc.

Image
Patrick

C60 Pro 300, C60 Sunrise, C63 Sealander Lucerne blue LE, C65 Dartmouth, W11 Amelia (wife), C63 Sealander (son)

Some others + a few on the way
User avatar
StrapMeister
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 3833
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:29 pm
CW-watches: 2

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by StrapMeister »

First thing to say is that micro-brands, generally speaking, offer great value for money.
They also offer, but not all, a decent spec, nicely finished and have creative well thought out designs.
The majority of micro-brands use a common movement - NH35, Miyota, ETA, etc., so, from a servicing perspective, parts would be readily available and any independent watch maker/repairer would be able to service it.
The risk lies in the warranty - if something were to fail, is the Company still in business to be able to send it back for a repair?
Having said that, most of the warranties offered are only 1 or 2 years anyway.
I'm happy enough to look at offerings in the £200 - £400 price bracket.
However, I'll always research around, read reviews and generally do my homework before committing to a purchase.
User avatar
missF
CW Forum Poet Laureate
CW Forum Poet Laureate
Posts: 11866
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:59 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by missF »

The microbrands I’ve come across seem to sell out runs of their watches quite quickly (or even immediately). Is this a sign of popularity in the brand or do they just cautiously stick to producing what they think/know they can sell?
watching you fail in your quest for a “one watch” has been great entertainment
Watchaholic

‘Imprudently spendy’
Thomcat00
User avatar
Bident
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2426
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:15 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by Bident »

Hello missF,

Most of what I would have said has been mentioned above. I have bought several microbrands in my collection (Nodus, Zelos, Farer) and in each case my research focused on the company's customer service as much as the watches themselves. With Nodus and Zelos in particular, the owners really take care of their customers often providing freebies like extra straps or bracelet parts should you need them. With respect to Traska, I believe them to be an excellent company. I was all set to buy their mint green Freediver earlier this year until the blue C60 popped up in CW's Nearly New sale in January. I emailed with Jon Mack, the owner of Traska, several times before my expected purchase and even felt obligated to tell him that I unexpectedly bought the C60 instead of the Freediver. He couldn't have been more gracious, and I'm confident you will have a good experience with your Summiteer. From my research, Traska makes a superior product with fully articulating bracelet links, perlage finishing on the clasp, and a coating on both the watch and bracelet to make it impervious to scratches.

In a nutshell, I find the main benefit to a good microbrand is the ability to contact the owner directly, especially if you have any questions or anything goes amiss (which of course happens to everyone from time to time). I'm sure there are microbrands that have awful customer service too, so doing one's homework really is worth it.

Look forward to seeing the Summiteer!
Best regards,
John
User avatar
Bident
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2426
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:15 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by Bident »

missF wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:37 pm The microbrands I’ve come across seem to sell out runs of their watches quite quickly (or even immediately). Is this a sign of popularity in the brand or do they just cautiously stick to producing what they think/know they can sell?
In my experience, it is much more the former (popularity). It pays if you want a certain microbrand watch to get on their email lists and join their social media efforts. In many cases that will be the only way to get the early notification necessary for purchase.
Best regards,
John
User avatar
missF
CW Forum Poet Laureate
CW Forum Poet Laureate
Posts: 11866
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:59 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by missF »

^^ That was my experience with Traska. I only secured my watch because I got an email half an hour before sales opened. They didn’t sell out immediately but the green and orange sold out within days
watching you fail in your quest for a “one watch” has been great entertainment
Watchaholic

‘Imprudently spendy’
Thomcat00
Soporsche
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 1921
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:22 am
CW-watches: 9
Location: London

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by Soporsche »

I've had a few now, some have got bigger (Company not the watches 🙂) others have faded a little. Some brands have inc. Stratton, Bern, Dan Henry, Nardi (not yet arrived), Autodromo, Zelos
Some great designs, exceptional value, interesting executions, nice communities, fun and something a little different . They have all been functionally solid and so far I've had no issues.
There were some kickstarter models I was frustrated to have missed but found it quickly passed and this I think reflects part of of the challenge for me..
I liked my microbrand watches aesthetically but on the whole they didn't/don't provide a special feeling.
Its difficult to quantity the precise reason but if im really honest I think for me specifically its a combination of, quality, history, story, genuine interest, aspiration. If i were to use 1 word (yes I know difficult for me) then it would be 'depth'.
This manifests itself as, at the lower price bracket of my collection I prefer to wear one of my cheap Seikos, quartz CW, or a modest 1960s Omega Dynamic than most of my micros. The couple of exceptions however will continue to have a long term position with me though!

The Traska looks like a quality microbrand proposition, great reviews from owners and watch blogs.. very nice choice and sure you will enjoy. Wear in good health. 👍
Stephen

A few CWs and other brands
0uatiOW
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 1329
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:46 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by 0uatiOW »

There are some great microbrands, and some terrible ones, as you would expect. Focusing on the good ones - I have personal experience of Brellum, Zelos, Axios & Magrette, all very good, and one Kickstarter I’m waiting to receive (Nardi, about which I am very excited). I’ve also just backed something called a Pompeak Sub-Aquatic on KS, which looks very promising. The upside of micros is that you can get great watches at a reasonable price. As long as you like the design, and the components are high quality (reliable movements, sapphire crystals, good quality case material, etc. etc.), you can do very well. Kickstarter is a bit of a risk, but buy carefully and you may get lucky.

Microbrands on my list are Farer, Pinion, Norquain & Monta, all of which well respected in the industry, but as I haven’t got my hands on anything from any of those brands yet, I can’t report any specific feedback.

[Edit: added Brellum, which is a fabulous, super high quality microbrand. I don’t think you could wear one of those without experiencing the oozing quality. That’s one of the reasons I’m interested in Norquain; not all micros have the same “best watch for a cheapish price” ethos.]
My name is 0uatiOW, but before you ask, no I don’t.
“Exquisitely minging” MissF, 19 July 2022
Just call me Diderot
User avatar
missF
CW Forum Poet Laureate
CW Forum Poet Laureate
Posts: 11866
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:59 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by missF »

Soporsche wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:22 am
I liked my microbrand watches aesthetically but on the whole they didn't/don't provide a special feeling.
Its difficult to quantity the precise reason but if im really honest I think for me specifically its a combination of, quality, history, story, genuine interest, aspiration. If i were to use 1 word (yes I know difficult for me) then it would be 'depth'.
I’m really interested to hear you say that. Perhaps anyone who has read ‘Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance’ might have an inkling of what you’re getting at. The premise of the book is - ‘quality- you can’t define it but you know it when you experience it’....

I’m even more keen to get this watch now and see what the experience is like. :thumbup:
watching you fail in your quest for a “one watch” has been great entertainment
Watchaholic

‘Imprudently spendy’
Thomcat00
Soporsche
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 1921
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:22 am
CW-watches: 9
Location: London

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by Soporsche »

Yes Lindsey, good comparison. ITs also very personal to the individual.
Maybe I should have added, there's Microbrand watches and there's Microbrands who produce quality watches.
Traska has a great reputation amongst watch geeks (enthusiasts) and that has been earned. Looking forward to your thoughts and pics of course 👍.
Stephen

A few CWs and other brands
0uatiOW
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 1329
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:46 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by 0uatiOW »

Soporsche wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:26 am there's Microbrand watches and there's Microbrands who produce quality watches.
You’ve made me edit my post above. Ignoring the charlatans who are out to produce a cheap piece of rubbish and pretend it’s not, when we talk about microbrands we tend to think of the watches made in China to a modest budget, while (hopefully) trying to meet the highest standards possible within that limitation. Then there are the brands which try to build the best quality product they can, at the cheapest price they can....

Brellum is an example of this - it’s essentially a one-man company (Sebastien Muller) who produces a small quantity per year (400 I think), all chronometers, to a really high standard. They are Swiss Made, the finishing is excellent, the movements are beautifully decorated, customer service is second to none, and they look great (if you like chronographs). Prices come in around Tudor levels, so you’ll always get the crowd who say “you could get a Black Bay for that money”, but in my view the cases, the visuals & the finishing are all better than the BB.

Norquain is another new Swiss brand, which has just signed an exclusive movement contract with Kinessi (they make Tudor movements apparently). Once again, the prices on the models with the new movement are in BB territory at around £3K.
My name is 0uatiOW, but before you ask, no I don’t.
“Exquisitely minging” MissF, 19 July 2022
Just call me Diderot
User avatar
Noush
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:30 am
CW-watches: 2
Location: Blue Mountains Australia

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by Noush »

Almost half my collection consists of micro brands and every one of them has been a watch both worth buying and keeping.
I've been careful to pick from what's out there and some history in doing what they do, and a range of reviews of all sorts over time.
My Phoibos Eagle Ray probably the buy of the year at its price. Excellent. Dekla, just a great Flieger. Direnzo - gorgeous and well made. And the Formex Essence is pure class, best watch I own (for now....).

That Traska has been on my radar over the time it's been around. I think Jon's got something there, I'm certain you will enjoy it.
Chris
"Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans" : John Lennon.
User avatar
strapline
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2328
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 3:00 pm
CW-watches: 0
Location: SW Ireland

Re: Thoughts on microbrands

Post by strapline »

This is a bit lengthy, but some might enjoy the read. They are only my thoughts, but I do enjoy this kind of discussion thread. And it's also more of a generic view of microbrands as a whole.

I guess the first question is what constitutes a microbrand? I know that different people will have different understandings of what the term means. For me it means something along the following lines: a brand formed in the last 20 or so yrs; a brand that largely sells online and may not sell its products through traditional physical watch shops and jewellers; a brand that due to its young age has limited or no real history; a brand that has a limited advertising budget, so may not spend money on famous brand ambassadors or sponsoring expensive sporting events.

What I'm describing is the polar opposite our old notion of watches and the 'watch experience'. Up until 25yrs or so ago if you looked in any watch shop window in the world you saw the same limited number of players. With the advent of the internet that notion has been shaken up completely. I personally think this has been a good thing because, if nothing else, it has given us choice. I think the old notion of watch manufacturing and retailing is a little tired - a bit like some of its output. I also think that without the challenge posed by a competitive market place some of these big brands had got too used to having things their own way.

When I buy a watch I have to be able to perceive its quality. I have to be able to see the craftsmanship and quality of materials that have gone in to it. And, most important, I have to feel it reflects my personality, the way I live my life, the way I choose to present myself. I do not feel the need to think that a version of my watch went to the moon, that Brad Pitt wears it, or that the brands logo is displayed on Formula 1 cars etc. None of these type of baubles increase the pleasure of my wearing my watch or, more importantly, in choosing to buy it.

I guess I feel more rooted to the modern notion of the watch experience than the traditional. I often think that 'good' microbrands present better value for money than many of the old, traditional watch houses. For every £ or $ that goes in to the manufacture of a good watch a very large proportion of that is traceable to the end product itself. There is no big budget to pay for celebrity endorsement or sponsorship of massive sporting events, there is no need to pay for an extensive dealer network and all the associated costs. As much of the manufacturing outlay as is humanly possible is directed in to the end product itself.

To this end, many traditional watch enthusiasts would see Christopher Ward as a microbrand, albeit one of the bigger, more established players. Yes they offer an extensive range, yes they have manufactured their own movement. More recently they have even revisited the super compressor. But, by the old notions of watch manufacture, retailing and marketing they would not be considered 'mainstream', more a smallish independent. But the fact that this forum exists at all would suggest that a lot of people believe that what they offer is a good thing and, although different to the old ways of doing things, a very valid alternative.

So...I am a fan of microbrands and, in many ways, I think they will play a huge part in watch manufacture and retailing going forward. No watch brand is created with heritage, it is something that is earned over a great period of time. Even the great watch houses were fledgling companies at the outset, the microbrands of their day. It is the fact that a good number of these brands have been around for well over a hundred years, some closer to two hundred, that give these brands such huge kudos. It'll be interesting to see how many of the new microbrands achieve such longevity and respect. As always, it will only be achieved by offering quality, customer service and value for money.

Des
Does melancholy count as two of your five daily servings?
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post