Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

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Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by tikkathree »

Just picked up on this in my googly news feed:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/u ... d-23840715

My first thought was that it was a 1st April jolly jape shortly followed by wondering who, other than Watchfinder & co, would describe Watchfinder & co as "biggest retailer"?

I guess that the biggest retailer in the universe doesn't get much call for "small" watches?

But this forum does have one, probably more, women members and it would be interesting to hear what you make of this?
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by missF »

Hi Pete
This is very much a story IMO, and in more of the watch press than the good old Mirror. I want to make a good representation of the story so will have a coffee, read a bit more, and post more later :thumbup:
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by missF »

So. I've been reading around this topic for a few months, and I thought I'd start with a paragraph that's purely my own opinion on the subject of gender in watches:


Oh but I roll my eyes :roll: at the received 'wisdom' that 'womens' watches are small, quartz and covered in diamonds. Does this represent what a majority of women want? Or is it that over time we just have to settle for what's on offer?
Oh but I roll my eyes when I face 'Men' and 'Women' tabs on sale sites, knowing that I'll click on both because I'm looking for a 36-38mm watch.
It makes me frustrated that I am told what I want and who I am by advertising that is sexist and portrays me by how I look and how attractive I am to men, rather than who I AM and what I DO. This is changing in recent years but slowly....


For anyone who is interested in the topic, this recent NYTimes article presents a brilliant summary of the discussions that have been going on in the last few years..
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/fash ... ender.html

'In the last few years' is the pertinent phrase here, and the one that really surprises me. Another article that's well worth a read is this Hodinkee one, that really set the watch world talking by all accounts. It really felt like this bust open the topic for discussion. Women felt on the back of the article that they were being consulted on what they want in watches for the first time in a long time (/ever??). I thought about posting this article on the forum at the time, but didn't. I didn't think it was a story that women don't feel comfortable being pigeonholed into a very narrow category of watches. What I didn't realise was that for so many women this story had never before been discussed or written about in the watch press. It's 2021 for heaven's sake, and women are only just being consulted by the watch industry on what they really really want....
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/all-w ... -heres-why

I'm not attacking the entire watch industry. I'm not attacking 'men'. I think that the case for doing away with "men' and 'women' in watches is well made, and makes increasing commercial and social sense as men choose smaller watches and women choose bigger ones. I haven't really written in depth about this as I intended, but will leave some space for discussion and questions. It would be interesting to hear feedback on the two articles I have quoted, because they're very well written. If you want to offer feedback on my opinions then that's fine too - they are just my opinions.

I'm off to the beach! Will be interested to catch up on this thread later :thumbup:
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by magicman »

I haven't read the full article, and I may change my opinion when I have.

First thoughts/kneejerk reaction.

If my wfe would like to buy a watch, will she in future see a watch she loves, only to find it's too big at the available 38 or 42mm ?
Or will all watchmakers offer 30mm up to 44mm in each design ?

She would probably not know to refine her search down to case size, I just told her, that she would still like to see a ladies specific category.
Just kidding she said she would like to see it as a search option, and my daughter would too.
But I suppose if it wasn't there, they would adapt to it, as with all online shopping, the refinements when searching can be too limited or way too much.

Also will all the bargain used small size versions, labeled currently as ladies watches, be brought inline price wise with the larger versions ?

My daughter (26) who works in retail, suggested. Perhaps the same could be done with Perfumes/aftershaves, where the ladies are often per ML double the price of the Men's.

I have no problem, either way.
But currently the vote in my living room is.
2 ladies against.
1 Gentleman (Picking splinters out my bum)

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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

This whole topic has been fascinating me for some time. I waited to see what you would post, Lindsey, and I feel I’m pretty much on the same page.

It seems that design and marketing has taken into account, historically speaking, the following:
  • What men who design watches believe that women want
  • What women who design watches (less frequently, I suspect) believe that women want
  • What men who buy watches for women believe that women want
But it seems not to have taken into account the following, which is perhaps the most important:

  • What women who buy watches for themselves actually want


And of course, we must understand that there is no single answer to that last question. Just as there is no single answer as far as men are concerned – we see that every day here on the forum.

It is interesting that CW did away with the women’s collection a few years ago now. I suppose the top level argument will be that it was uneconomical to maintain, but perhaps it goes a little deeper.

It would be good to see as broad a range as possible of size, style and function out there, but without specific reference to gender. What we have seen so far are steps in the right direction, but there is still some way to go.
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by missF »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:37 am It seems that design and marketing has taken into account, historically speaking, the following:
  • What men who design watches believe that women want
  • What women who design watches (less frequently, I suspect) believe that women want
  • What men who buy watches for women believe that women want
But it seems not to have taken into account the following, which is perhaps the most important:

  • What women who buy watches for themselves actually want

I say Yes to this. But you can apply this to men buying watches too. Why should a man who wants to buy a small watch set with diamonds be told that he's wearing a 'womens' watch?? Not all men want to wear divers...
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

missF wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:45 am But you can apply this to men buying watches too.
Absolutely. That was implicit in what I wrote, though I probably didn’t express it adequately.
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by jtc »

My wife's not really into watches, but all the ones she has ooh'd at have been "men's" watches in the 36mm upwards range. She'd also not want a diamond encrusted monstrosity!

All watches sorted by case size should be sufficient online, the by collection in shops. Sorted.
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by JAFO »

Interesting. I have bought my wife a few quartz watches, mainly fashion brands, such as Radley.
She doesn't like big watches, and she only has a small wrist, so an ideal size would be say, 28mm to 34mm.
I wanted to get her a proper watch, mechanical with a display back, and clearly a feminine style. It's mazing how hard it was to find one. In the end I found a Tissot and a more delicate Eterna. (30mm, ETA2681). A man would need a small wrist to wear this bracelet. Pictures below.

I just bought a men's dress watch in a salmon/copper colour, only 37mm, and thought she might like that, but dismissed it instantly as a man's watch.

But I can't see a problem with anyone wearing anything they want. It's their money, their choice. That's why the concept of a dress watch, and a non-dress watch is rather outdated. You sit down at dinner now, and you see every sort of watch at the table. Maybe Downton Abbey would have a watch code, but most of us don't. So any watch is a GADA.

[edit] Just as inserted thought - the thing is, I imagine an standard ETA2824, or a Selitta SW200 needs a fairly large sized case, so to make a watch to fit a small sized wrist needs a new movement. I don't know whether Rolex say, have the same movement in a lady Datejust, as they do in a "standard" size DJ, but if they don't then they need to design a new movement for a size that probably isn't going to be sold in high volumes.

Anyway, this is the Eterna.
Eterna1.jpg
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by exHowfener »

Interesting thread, by co-incidence just viewed this morning's JOMW where Jody questions the sense of labelling smaller watches as "womens' watches" as it (apparently) puts men off buying them.
Maybe Downton Abbey would have a watch code, but most of us don't
At the time, any wrist watch would be regarded as effeminate, men would have worn a pocket watch for formal occasions.
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by JAFO »

exHowfener wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:37 pm Interesting thread, by co-incidence just viewed this morning's JOMW where Jody questions the sense of labelling smaller watches as "womens' watches" as it (apparently) puts men off buying them.
Maybe Downton Abbey would have a watch code, but most of us don't
At the time, any wrist watch would be regarded as effeminate, men would have worn a pocket watch for formal occasions.
ha ha. Yes - maybe a spiv would wear a wristwatch as well. I meant really that in the elevated and rarefied world of dukedoms and the like, there may well still be an adherence to the code of a modest dress watch at the dinner table, but out here amongst the hoi-polloi, pretty well anything goes.

I'm off to consult Jody on the matter now. Thanks for the pointer. {note - I cant find a new JOMW on the subject, although I did see a load of videos generally about watches for a smaller wrist}

Jenni Elle often discusses watches for the smaller wrist. eg this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEbryhDyzv8
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by ajax87 »

“One of the country's biggest watch retailers has said that gendering time pieces is "redundant, restrictive and outdated"

Agreed. I got my wife into watches last year (score!), and we’ve been so frustrated with what the industry thinks women want. I’ve read a couple articles recently that touch on this, so hopefully the industry starts to take notice.
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by missF »

ajax87 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:41 pm ...and we’ve been so frustrated with what the industry thinks women want.
I think I faced this 25 years ago, for my 21st birthday. I think I already had ideas about what I did and didn't like. My mum wanted desperately to buy me a watch for my 21st, but 'tradition' stated that it be tiny, silver and shiny. She bought me that damn watch in spite of mme being very explicit about the fact that I would never wear it! I never did....
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by Thermexman »

It's going to be a real pain to have to scroll through all the teeny weeny, diamonte encrusted, Lady bangle, watches from now on, rather than being able to filter them out by selecting the "Men" tab! Just my tuppence worth.

Also, at the risk of looking stupid, shut up at the back! What does GADA mean? I've read it twice on here today and I don't have a Scooby Doo!
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Re: Non-story anyone? MissF and other women: your thoughts please?

Post by ajax87 »

^^^ most of us already use filters to narrow down what we’re looking for. If not, its not like adding one tiny step to our watch search would have any meaningful negative impact on our lives. It would however have positive meaningful impact to others.
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