Record Player recommendations & questions

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malvern_man
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by malvern_man »

jkbarnes wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:29 pm
malvern_man wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:26 pm I've got the Audio Technica AT-LP2X which is a special version of the AT-LP3, I believe that the only difference is the LP2X comes with a felt mat and the LP3 comes with a rubber mat.

There are a couple of YouTube videos that show you how to set up the record deck although I found the supplied printed instruction very easy to follow.

I don't have a lot of room so I opted for powered speakers, I bought the Edifier R1280T Powered Bookshelf Speakers - 2.0 Active Near Field Monitors - Studio Monitor Speakers from Amazon.

I'm just starting to get back into vinyl and I'm very pleased with this set up, I think that sound from the speakers is great.
Those are the very speakers I have, just with the added Bluetooth (very handy, I might add)! So glad you posted this. Now I feel confident about this potential set up.

Does the LP2X have the ground wire? And if so, what did you do with it?
I can't remember if it has a ground wire or not to be honest, I just set it up per the included instructions and then connected the powered speakers. The only wires I connected were from the back of the deck to the speakers, then the wires that connect the speakers together.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by H0rati0 »

jkbarnes wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:29 pm

Does the LP2X have the ground wire? And if so, what did you do with it?
Andrew, hopefully you will not need a ground wire. If all connects up with no hum, forget it.

If you are unlucky enough to have a 60Hz hum (this is caused by a small voltage difference between the cartridge signal ground and the preamp input ground which should not occur) you can use the ground wire to connect these together, but in most cases that should not be necessary.

BTW, to help avoid ground loop problems plug all the components into the same AC outlet, you want all grounds starred back to the same point.

Have fun

nik
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by jkbarnes »

H0rati0 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:55 pm
jkbarnes wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:29 pm

Does the LP2X have the ground wire? And if so, what did you do with it?
Andrew, hopefully you will not need a ground wire. If all connects up with no hum, forget it.

If you are unlucky enough to have a 60Hz hum (this is caused by a small voltage difference between the cartridge signal ground and the preamp input ground which should not occur) you can use the ground wire to connect these together, but in most cases that should not be necessary.

BTW, to help avoid ground loop problems plug all the components into the same AC outlet, you want all grounds starred back to the same point.

Have fun

nik
Good tips, thank you! A few years ago when I got the powered speakers, I also got an inexpensive Bluetooth enabled turntable to use with it. However, there was a terrible hum that made it unlistenable. I was at a loss because the reviews of the turntable were all pretty good (for what it is mind you, an entry level turntable) and didn’t mention hum.

I might hook it back up, but plugged into the same outlet as the speakers, as I don’t think they were plugged into the same one before. Maybe you just saved me some money! This turntable didn’t have a ground wire or a grounded plug.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

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jkbarnes wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:37 pm
I might hook it back up, but plugged into the same outlet as the speakers, as I don’t think they were plugged into the same one before. Maybe you just saved me some money! This turntable didn’t have a ground wire or a grounded plug.
Hmm, by all means try again, however if there is no ground on the mains plug there should be no improvement by plugging into the same AC outlet. Something else in the system could have changed though - big example being connecting cable(s). As I say the principle is that you want the same well connected ground starring to every signal ground in the system. It sounds like your old turntable relies on grounding via its signal cable (no chassis ground) so then you have to have the right cable configuration. Of course, there could be a defect with that turntable itself, but usually hum is a ground issue.

I am trying not to get too technical here, but it can be complicated when one tries to connect equipment with different design philosophies so all you can do is hook up and see, following the manufacturer's recommendations (use original cables if provided) and if not satisfactory then one has to trouble shoot through, trying different cable and ground configurations.

Do let me know how you get on, I can hopefully provide more specific advice.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by timor54 »

Do the speakers have Bluetooth? If so have you considered a Bluetooth connected turntable.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by jkbarnes »

timor54 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:01 pm Do the speakers have Bluetooth? If so have you considered a Bluetooth connected turntable.
The intended original set up was to connect the turntable to the speakers via Bluetooth. The problem with this was twofold: the original turntable I bought hummed horribly whether connected by cables or Bluetooth; I could only pair one device at a time. This meant if I wanted to stream music from my phone I had to unpair the turntable only to have to repair it later. This was quite a PITA.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by JAFO »

I think a mains hum may be more noticeable depending on the relative volume settings.
I would think you want the pre-amp (or other source) set to maximum, and then the speaker volume set to the listening volume you want, but the lower the better. Doing it the other way round is likely to increase the chance of the mains hum.

A Phono (turntable) output is very low, so a phono preamp is needed to bring the output level up to the same as you would get with, say, a tuner or a CD player. What phono pre-amp are you actually using? Can you select an output level?

I've just reread the thread, and saw that your TT has a built in pre-amp. Is that switchable? Maybe it's turned off?

[edit] I had a look at the manual, and it mentions connecting the TT to the amp either with or without the phono stage. How are you actually connecting to your speakers? I just checked mine, it's such a long time since I connected. The output from my TT has a red and white phono plug for the sound channels, and a ground wire which is secured to the amp, so maybe you need to ground your TT somehow, The manual just says connect the ground if available, so that may not matter. It also mentions you have a selector between moving coil and moving magnet. I forget which but one is much weaker than the other and needs more pre-amplification. Try changing this, but make sure your speakers are turned right down - you don't want to overload them by sending too high a signal. 12/13/14 on the manual - part names and functions - I am looking at. I've checked cartridges now. Moving coil is the one that's generally more expensive than moving magnet, and needs a lot more preamp than MM. The standard spec cartridge I can see is AT91R - MM.

I would have thought your speakers haven't got a phono stage in them, in which case the settings on the back ought to be LINE and MM. As I say, if you experiment turn the gain on the speakers right down first. If you are finding you have to turn the speakers up to a high volume setting it's a good indication that the signal is too weak.

if you have the output set to PHONO, it's expecting the amp to add the pre-amp stage. if you select LINE than the TT is doing the preamp.

I doubt it's the TT to be honest. What HiFi rate it as 5/5.

One other thing though -there might be a transport screw holding the turntable for transport. If that hasn't been released correctly that might cause this. I bought a nearly new hifi system like this. The amp sounded great with nothing playing - I mean no hum when there was no input, but there was a noticeable hum with just the turntable running - so I knew the amp wasn't faulty. When I bought it, it turned out to be just the transport screw. I can't see anything in the manual, just the mention of attaching the belt to the turntable, but it's worth checking.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by jkbarnes »

JAFO wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:57 pm I think a mains hum may be more noticeable depending on the relative volume settings.
I would think you want the pre-amp (or other source) set to maximum, and then the speaker volume set to the listening volume you want, but the lower the better. Doing it the other way round is likely to increase the chance of the mains hum.

A Phono (turntable) output is very low, so a phono preamp is needed to bring the output level up to the same as you would get with, say, a tuner or a CD player. What phono pre-amp are you actually using? Can you select an output level?

I've just reread the thread, and saw that your TT has a built in pre-amp. Is that switchable? Maybe it's turned off?

[edit] I had a look at the manual, and it mentions connecting the TT to the amp either with or without the phono stage. How are you actually connecting to your speakers? I just checked mine, it's such a long time since I connected. The output from my TT has a red and white phono plug for the sound channels, and a ground wire which is secured to the amp, so maybe you need to ground your TT somehow, The manual just says connect the ground if available, so that may not matter. It also mentions you have a selector between moving coil and moving magnet. I forget which but one is much weaker than the other and needs more pre-amplification. Try changing this, but make sure your speakers are turned right down - you don;t want to overload them by sending too high a signal. 12/13/14 on the manual - part names and functions - I am looking at.

One other thing though -there might be a transport screw holding the turntable for transport. If that hasn't been released correctly that might cause this. I bought a nearly new hifi system like this. The amp sounded great with nothing playing - I mean no hum when there was no input, but there was a noticeable hum with just the turntable running - so I knew the amp wasn't faulty. When I bought it, it turned out to be just the transport screw. I can't see anything in the manual - just the mention of attaching the belt to the turntable.
Thanks for taking the time with such a thoughtful and detailed response. Let me clarify a few things and answer your question. I have not yet purchased the turntable I reference in my original post. I’m giving serious thought to purchasing it and was soliciting opinions from forumites on it.

As for the hum, it is (was) coming from an rather inexpensive turntable I bought a few years ago, with initial thoughts being a wireless set up. The brand is Ion, and it had good reviews, believe it or not. This turn table has a built in pre-amp and built in Bluetooth. The pre-amp cannot be switched off. I also don’t see a set screw like you describe. The hum existed whether connected wirelessly or through RCA cables. There is no ground wire, nor is the plug grounded.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, I’m going to try reconnecting this older turntable while paying attention to where everything is plugged in.

Oddly enough, I had a very old turntable and receiver/amp given to me by a coworker that sounded great! However, I didn’t like all the space that set up took up. I passed that off to my son, and we won’t give it back! :lol:

Thanks for all the input, folks! It’s much appreciated.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by JAFO »

Hi Andrew

I added a bit more, afterwards. The AT LP3 is clearly very well thought of, but the ION seems to do the lot as well.
One indicator might be if you have to turn the volume up high on your speakers as that would amplify any low level effects - you ought to be able to listen sensibly at volume 3 or 4. If you have to go up to 7 or 8 that would sort of indicate the signal isn't strong enough. Can you bluetooth to your phone or PC and try it that way. That might be an indication whether it's just incompatibility with the speakers. You said it was happening with bluetooth, so it's not the speaker wiring.

https://vinylrestart.com/can-i-connect- ... to-speaker
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

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jkbarnes wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:44 pm

As for the hum, it is (was) coming from an rather inexpensive turntable I bought a few years ago, with initial thoughts being a wireless set up. The brand is Ion, and it had good reviews, believe it or not. This turn table has a built in pre-amp and built in Bluetooth. The pre-amp cannot be switched off. I also don’t see a set screw like you describe. The hum existed whether connected wirelessly or through RCA cables. There is no ground wire, nor is the plug grounded.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, I’m going to try reconnecting this older turntable while paying attention to where everything is plugged in.
Andrew

if you had the hum using bluetooth connection as well as RCA, there are only two possibilities and they are independent of each other:

1. The speakers are themselves picking up mains hum - I assume this is not the case since you can happily use them with other sources?
2. The cartridge or preamp in the TT are picking up hum induced from the motor = TT fault, probably a ground/screen connection missing or broken internally.

To comment further on JAFO's input, volume (gain) settings should make no difference to absence or presence of mains hum, but hum if present (& noise) will of course be louder with more gain applied.

nik
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

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jkbarnes wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:44 pm
As for the hum, it is (was) coming from an rather inexpensive turntable I bought a few years ago, with initial thoughts being a wireless set up. The brand is Ion, and it had good reviews, believe it or not. This turn table has a built in pre-amp and built in Bluetooth. The pre-amp cannot be switched off. I also don’t see a set screw like you describe. The hum existed whether connected wirelessly or through RCA cables. There is no ground wire, nor is the plug grounded.
Does this hum all the time or only when the turntable is spinning? If all the time then likely to be a earth loop problem; if only whilst spinning then something mechanical in the turntable.

External turntable earth wires are only normally used when you’re connecting to an external preamp or amplifier phono input via RCA cables.

For turntable with a built-in preamp, which includes Bluetooth turntables, there should be no need for an external earth wire as you ground through the preamp earthing.

The key point to me in your response above is that the mains plug is not grounded. If you’re using a 2-pin non-ground mains plug then that could be your problem?

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/cms/conte ... tentId=245 is quite a good guide to all turntable things that hum.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by jkbarnes »

Lots of great feedback from everyone in the last couple of posts! Thank you. I’m going to reconnect the other turntable to see if I can isolate and troubleshoot the hum based on the information that’s been shared. More info to come...
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by H0rati0 »

timor54 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:50 pm
The key point to me in your response above is that the mains plug is not grounded. If you’re using a 2-pin non-ground mains plug then that could be your problem?
That is a key point, you haven't changed the mains plug by any chance?

It would be unusual (though theoretically possible) to have a preamp without a ground connection on its mains plug.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by jkbarnes »

Success! This thread just saved me a couple hundred dollars! I’m not entirely sure what’s different, but the hum is gone. I’ve got both the turntable and the powered speakers plugged into the same power strip. Honestly can’t remember how I had everything plugged in before.

But whatever it is, the hum is gone! The sound quality isn’t necessarily high fidelity, but the hum is gone. I’ll enjoy this set up for now. If I find myself listening to records quite a bit, I’ll think about an upgrade. But this will serve me quite well for now.

F18D2910-3305-4880-970A-A6601AAD0847.jpeg
That sign below the turntable hung on my grandfather’s stereo for decades. When my grandmother finally moved out of their house, it was passed on to me.

EDITED TO ADD:
The turntable is the ION Air Turntable. Certainly not high fidelity sound, but it will get the job done for now.
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Re: Record Player recommendations & questions

Post by H0rati0 »

^^^
Bravo!

Always so satisfying to be able to re-use rather than throw away and buy again.
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