F1 2022 / 2023 / 2024 Motorsport Thread

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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by JAFO »

andybarry87 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:37 pm I seem to be the only one who thinks the stewards got that call completely right. I think Lewis was probably more to blame than Verstappen, but neither party were anything close to innocent (Lewis off the apex and Max turning in knowing Lewis was there).

Up until this point Max has got away from these types of incidents as the other driver has backed out, so in the run I hope it makes him have to think before he tries it (I don’t want him to stop, but I want there to be some unpredictability of whether he pulls it off)
I obviously got it wrong. I thought Lewis had an opening, and was justified in going for it, and max should have realised he needed to leave room. If the stewards thought Lewis was at fault they should be able to DQ him. I thought he then did exactly the same to leclerc at the end. So if he was wrong with verstappen, then he was equally wrong with leclerc, and if a 10 second stop go was appropriate he should have got another 10 second penalty for the second incident. He could have backed off at that point and waited, and he could also have accepted second place and a decent points haul.
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by Illiera »

I’m not sure it’s a DQ though, because the infringement wasn’t severe (obviously the crash). With the Leclerc one the view I saw had Lewis much closer to the apex so had no where to go. It looked like he was far enough alongside so that Leclerc could see him and if he had turned in would be penalised for not leaving room.

After a few duds with little racing incidents at the front it was good to have something that everyone could take a side on and argue about.
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by kiter65 »

I know you can’t compare modern to old 70’s/80’s/90’s football etc, add your favourite sport, to now days but I wonder how these pups would fair against the likes of Senna, Prost, Mansell, Schumacher etc :problem:
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by JAFO »

I think driving is one sport that does translate across the decades. I reckon a great driver would be a great driver in any age. Hard to say who would be the best though.
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by Mikkei4 »

JAFO wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:30 pm I thought he then did exactly the same to leclerc at the end. So if he was wrong with verstappen, then he was equally wrong with leclerc, and if a 10 second stop go was appropriate he should have got another 10 second penalty for the second incident. He could have backed off at that point and waited, and he could also have accepted second place and a decent points haul.
IMO, Helicopter view of each of the above incidents showed 2 different racing lines in each incident.

Obviously in the first (when Lewis and Max made contact) the racing lines and distance between the 2 cars were tighter, both to each other and to the edge of the track on Lewis's right. The replay that shows Max's steering wheel movement is interesting, he starts to turn right, spots the Merc, moves the steering wheel left then moves it again to the right. Only Max can know if that was to cut off Lewis, was an attempt to "scare" him or to take his own preferred racing line to prevent losing the position.

The 2nd incident (Hamilton and Leclerc) looks different. There was more space between them and off the inner edge of the track on Hamilton's side. Leclerc seems to get spooked by Lewis's proximity and speed, loses his concentration and drifts off the track thus losing the position without contact.

Max has built a reputation as a hard and assertive driver that has "coaxed" Hamilton and others out of his way in previous races. Like Senna he has used this to create a warning of "I'm coming through and if you don't move out of my way we'll have an accident", IMO.

Overall they were both very aggressive in that first lap and neither was going to give way. A F1 Champion or potential Champion is not going to back off and wait with just 2 laps remaining to win or accept 2nd place when he's over 30points behind in the Championship. Final wish is that hopefully Max doesn't have any serious or lasting effects from the significant crash.
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by JAFO »

Mercedes did their best today to ruin Hamilton's race, moving him to last place.

I thought Alonso was out of order with some of his tactics.
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by mik »

I thought Alonso’s race craft was excellent. Hats off to him. In a slower car he did a great job of defending his place IMHO.

I am no Ham fan, but I get really embarrassed by the boos. Grown adults. WTF?

(Mind you I felt exactly the same when I made my first venture from club level / btcc to attend the 2014 GP at Silverstone and a huge percentage of the crowd booed every time NicoR came round, and cheered every time Lewis came past).
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Seb Vettel; hero to zero.

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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by what-time-is-it »

Well that was different and congrats to Ocon who kept his head and Alonso for being a wily old fox.

Mercedes were in the first pit box so had Hamilton come in he would probably be held in the pit box until others had passed, or possibly had an incident similar to Kimi. I accept however had he come in, he probably wouldn't have dropped to last position.

It's a shame he didn't come in, because what would have happened in the pit lane? The light only goes green when the cars on the starting grid have passed...
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by jtc »

Farcical restart, F1 will need to tweak the rules to ensure that doesn't happen again. I was never a fan of introducing additional standing starts - maybe this scenario will mean we see more rolling safety car restarts in future.

While not the biggest Vettel fan, it's such a shame to see Aston Martin lose that P2. Hopefully they can extract the full 1 litre from the impounded car and the result is readjusted.

Brilliant drive by Ocon. He's shown why he was once in the running for a Merc seat. Great to see the huge emotion from Russell too at bringing some points back for Williams.

An incredible recovery drive by Hamilton. He was last and did an extra stop compared to most cars. Hopefully his long covid symptoms don't impact the rest of the championship.
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

^^^^ The restart after Red Flag with only Lewis on the grid and the rest of the field in the pits was a bit on the comedic side, but it made for an entertaining race.


Could have happened for any race start.

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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by tikkathree »

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:37 am ^^^^ The restart after Red Flag with only Lewis on the grid and the rest of the field in the pits was a bit on the comedic side, but it made for an entertaining race.


Could have happened for any race start.

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And at one point in a "highlights programme" I'm sure someone said that if Hamilton had been pitted at the same time as the rest of the cars he could have been held back to avoid an unsafe release: also something about the order in which cars lined up for the restart being based on last year's championship positions: is there a contradiction here?
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by Soporsche »

^^ as i understand it the box/garage positions are based on last years championship result (hence Russell getting out 1st), that garage position would have potentially meant Hamilton having to wait to pull out and been towards the back or mid pack from the pits.. so I think they meant lined up in the pits as opposed to lined up for the restart, though the one may have led to the other if they then had to standing start based on on track positions after everyone left the pits and came round to grid.
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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

^^^^ Yes, Pete, a bit of a contradiction.

As Stephen says; The position of the Teams Garages/Boxes in the Pits is determined by Constructor's Championship position from the previous year (except at Silverstone where to lead Constructor gets to be in the middle where they can be seen). This year, Mercedes have the 1st box as they enter the pits; Williams the last.

This means that Lewis would have entered the pits and stopped in his box BUT would then have needed to wait until the rest of the field had filed by, before he could be released, with no doubt some other cars being released ahead of him. Dammed if he did; dammed if he didn't.

Should the field have not all come into the pits but taken up positions on the grid for a restart, as they usually do, they would have lined up in track position order at the moment the race had been stopped (not the original race start positions as determined by qualifying).

Make sense?

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Re: F1 2021 Motorsport Thread

Post by jkbarnes »

I thought I heard the commentators state that as the cars came out of the pits they had to assume the position they would have had on the grid initially for the restart. That’s why Russell, who got out quickly and jumped to P2 or P3 had to them drop down to (I think it was) P7. That’s if I understood correctly what they were saying.
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