How Wet Can You Get?

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Kip
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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by Kip »

akirk wrote:If a watch manufacturer sells a watch as water resistant to 30m then they are going to have a hard time refusing to mend any damage if you swim with it ina pool at less than 30m (whatever the pressure... :)) mind you if it is a dress watch the leather strap might not survive...

I would say it is a bit dodgy to claim that you need a watch to be water resistant to 100m to have it on in the bath - or 50m to wear it in the shower - how would it cope in rain?

On their logic a watch could cope immersed to wash your hands but not take a shower / heavy rainstorm (and I have been in rainstorms heavier than some showers manage...)

the reality should be that anything which is 30m+ water resistant should cope up to swimming pool use...

Alasdair

Water resistant rating is measured under static pressure while motion in water, such as the act of swimming, is dynamic. Even though you're swimming 3 feet under water, the act of swimming, such as your arm and watch moving through the water, creates more pressure on the watch.
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akirk
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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by akirk »

maybe - but bar is directly related to metres of water above you...
so a 30 metre descent takes you down to 3 bar of pressure (1 bar = 10 metre)
most mains water is c. 1 bar
a high end (pump driven) massage type shower might hit 2 - 3 bar (yet the diagram suggests a need for 10 bar!)
a bath might be 3 ft / 1 metre of water - 2 metres would be enormously deep for a bath - that is therefore only 0.1 / 0.2 bar yet they require 10 bar protection? a bath of 10 bar will be 100metres deep / over 300 foot deep if you installed that in your bathroom you had better be the penthouse and own the 30+ floors below you :)

personally - think the chart to be nonsense :) I would be very unhappy if a watch capable of being washed under running water from my mains (1 bar) was incapable of being used in my bath (0.1 - 0.2bar) - not logical!
Water resistant rating is measured under static pressure while motion in water, such as the act of swimming, is dynamic. Even though you're swimming 3 feet under water, the act of swimming, such as your arm and watch moving through the water, creates more pressure on the watch.
true - but really not that big a difference... is it? in fact the faster you swim - the more you can reduce pressure as you are taking the water with you, rather than swimming against it - which is why swimmers use specific strokes to find still water to push against, rather than straight strokes pushing against hte water travelling with them which would make their stroke less effective...

and I don't do much swimming in my bath! biggest thing to notice is that the pressure rating is not necessarily continual use - and that perhps more than anything would be the concern...

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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by Cirrus »

I think the confusion over this sort of thing comes from the different standards to which watches are tested... normal use watches are tested to be resistant (not proof against) a certain static pressure of water, dive watches are designed and tested to be resistant over extended periods and multiple exposures at varying temperatures to static pressures above that to which they are to be rated.

In a bath I would guess the problem is temperature and detergents more than pressure... I don't know how you do the maths to model that.

Depth and movement is easier though; physics dictates that moving a watch under water results in a greater pressure acting upon it than if it were static, but the numbers involved are not really significant; at 50m depth a velocity of about 5m/s (which is pretty damn fast) increases the apparent depth by not quite 2m!

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akirk
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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by akirk »

I am not sure that temperature is an issue - the ISO test requires testing at temperatures up to 45 deg. C for condensation and that is a hot bath!

The ISO text can be seen here:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f135/text- ... 65634.html

Notes:
- It doesn't apply to divers' watches
- it states that any watch bearing the term water-resistant are intended for ordinary daily use and are resistant to water during exercises such as swimming for a short period.
- it only states that the tests allow you to claim water-resistant and a pressure (optional, but always above 2 bar) if you test to that pressure...
- it doesn't correlate pressure value to activity - other than to state swimming for a short period and they are not intended for submarine diving. (there is another ISO code for that).

It is therefore left to the manufacturers to interpret what pressure relates to in terms of activity... this is one of those beautiful vagaries of law therefore...
- the manufacturer can claim 3 bar / 30 ft and say not for use in the bath - despite it being a pretty freaky bath that gets to 3 bar of pressure...

If there was an issue
- how do you prove that you were / were not using a watch at any particular pressure / in any particular activity?
- how does the manufacturer prove that you were / weren't using it in any particular way?
- therefore arguably WR claims are pretty meaningless as you could probably never claim under them...
- or maybe you have to rely on manufacturers with good / common-sense customer service?

If you are serious about water usage, then that probably means getting a dive watch...

It would be interesting to know CWL views...
The C3 listed as a dress watch is listed as 50m water-resistant - what use would CWL be happy to see it put to?
The C11 is listed as 500m and they say:
Most of us will never put the 735 pounds of force per square inch capability of the Makaira to the test - but the fact that it is capable of resisting such pressure should we find ourselves 500 metres below the surface (heaven forbid) provides a certain reassurance if you forget to remove your watch in the shower!
I wonder what they consider acceptable use?

but back to the original chart - I feel it is very restrictive...

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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by davidjamesinc »

I like the chart as it outlines it quite well but I would be really curious as to the effect that aquatic sports like sailing, waterskiing or board sports would be as the potential speed that you enter the water would be greatly increased. This would, I imagine, produce much greater pressure than the activities in the diagram. However I'm also aware that calculating something as varied as this would take a certain type of pointy head with a very clever calculator . Would be interesting and useful though. :problem:
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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by Cirrus »

Degams wrote:Thanks for posting
Hmm. You are going to get shouted at by the wardens you know ;)

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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by Citizen V »

Regarding dynamic pressure, high temperatures, etc. I think this is worth a read:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/sigh-my ... 10734.html
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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by smegwina »

Zombie thread alert!!!! :D

Righty ho.

Was looking at an Oris Big Crown Pilot today and was getting jolly excited about it, but then noticed that it was 30m water resist.

Did we ever actually nail down what this all means????

I tend to wear a watch and forget about it. This means that it will be subjected to washing up, car washing duties, pond cleaning, the occassional drenching in aviation fuel etc etc.

Accordong to the Oris own chart, a 30m watch can be splashed, but not actually submerged, which to my wee brain is utter tosh.

After reading the above posts abd also having read up on the ISO tests, it just gets more confusing.

Without the ISO test, a 2000m rated Supermarine or indeed a DeepSea are not guaranteed waterproof, but a Monster is good to go!

Have I missed something above?? Am I just overthinking this whole thing, and a 30m watch will be ok for day to day wear, the odd dunking and covering with water, and indeed the occasional gym session with sweat and subsequent cleaning?

Long, hard day, so it just might be my pea brain!
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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by rgb »

Russ-Shettle wrote: I wouldn't intentionally do this, just to show off its capabilities or because you have some need to impress yourself and/or others. That's when it may actually fail. Russ
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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by james80 »

I guy I know decided one evening, whilst enjoying a beverage or two, to show us how strong his Motorola MicroTAC was. It survived a lot of dropping and throwing, driving over it with a Nissan, not so much.

And to answer the question no I wouldn't wear a 30m to the gym or submerge it. Especially not a nice one.
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Re: How Wet Can You Get?

Post by blowfish89 »

Not too obsessive about it. Watchmakers can fix anything, its just money right ? :)