Forum LE

A limited Edition Kingfisher especially for forum-members
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Re: Forum LE

Post by rcherryuk »

Cushie,
If you don't like it............................................................. post it to me :D

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Re: Forum LE

Post by mnementh »

Hi I still have the email that was sent out by CWsaying that a ten percent discount would be applied for staying with the order because of the delay.
Dear Customer,



Further to my email last week… I would like to thank you all for your quick response.



I have spoken to Chris and on reflection he has asked me to tell you that as a way of showing his thanks for your patience he will discount the price for you by 10% for sticking with the order….the orders will be amended manually ..there is no need for you to do anything…..



If you need anything else, either email or contact me directly on the below numbers, and or contact Jeanette or Margaret in the call

centre on 08708-500918



Many thanks once again and best regards,



Wera
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Re: Forum LE

Post by cushie »

Kip i may rip your Ebay ad from here as it may be where my LE will end up after i have worn it for a short time as the way this has been handled is leaving a distinctly bad impression on me. :)
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Re: Forum LE

Post by Kip »

cushie wrote:Kip i may rip your Ebay ad from here as it may be where my LE will end up after i have worn it for a short time as the way this has been handled is leaving a distinctly bad impression on me. :)
Keep the faith cushie...imo the watch is worth it in the end.
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Re: Forum LE

Post by Ron Hamelberg »

Hello Forum members,

I want you ask to read this mail message, please. CW is not consistent in his answers.......

Hi Wera,

Wera. It's important to say to you that my critics are not personally in your direction. You are the messenger. I'd like to introduce this nuance.

The no-discount message is one of the points of complain.

Another thing you told me, was that the KF LE was always "planned" with white date background and black lettering ("Finally…just checked with Chris also, and the white date with black lettering has apparently always been in the planning…."). I find this hard to say, but that answer seems to be really beside the truth. The first 50 KF LE's have all been deliverred with black date background and white lettering, the nrs 51-100 have the opposite coulour sceme! So, actually there are two KF LE versions now!! Funny, isn't it?? I do not believe that this "complication" has ever been in CW's planning........Actually, the CWL forum is full of it. Read the topic "Forum LE" at the KF LE-section, if you want. The date-indicator is not such a big deal, but the lag of (right) information from CW is. With your earlier answer I quoted above, CW makes his customers feel like a fool!!

But there is more;

I bought the forum LE because I love the design of the Kingfisher and with the automatic movement it was a watch I wanted to buy. But just as important to me was the 'feeling' I was getting about the CW company. Finally, a watch company that cared, that had a really good base of supporters with great stories to tell, and had a great philosophy of bringing great watches to the average person. Because of that, I wanted to support CW and would have been proud to wear one of his watches.

The KF LE-buyers have been waiting very long, about six months almost. Too long, if you ask me personally. I think most of the customers have, in spite of the delay,sticked with the order. The KF LE was worth waiting. That can tell CW something about the customer's convidence in the company and the product. The problem with such a long waiting period is that it lets slip away a little of the basic fun and joy which I felt at the moment of purchase.

Your message of the "LE-discount" came for me at the right moment. A logical move from a concerned company. This move seemed a good solution to me, a very good (and smart) suggestion from CW at the right time. For me this was a confirmation of your customer care. I could'nt estimate that this discount-message was only for Aviator customers! To be honest, the discount message has avoided me to cancel the LE order. I really began to loose my patience at that time. Looking back on it, why should the Aviator customers get the discount and the KF LE-customers should not?? They waited for exactly the same reason (ETA-movements) They waited also for about the same period, didn't they?
Is it because there was an overwhelming interest in the KF LE? And was it because of that, that you could permit yourself to ignore the discount-possibility for the LE-customers???

As you can read also on the KF LE forum, there are made very much mistakes with quality control in your company. Delivery errors, damaged watches, etc etc. Of course we don't see at the forum all the customers who got their watch in mint condition, but there are very much grumbling, dissatisfied customers at the forum now. I personally recieved a KF LE with damaged strap.

After such a long waiting period it's very hard to conclude that the quality of the product is at stake. This doesn't fit in your corporate-philosophy, does it? Maybe it's because your company grows too fast?? The complaints of your customers should be a serious signal for you. A complaint is a free advise, in my honest opinion. There are customer who doesn't complain and go to another watch-company without letting you know it. My critical notes should be heared by Christopher Ward personally.

Reading the passages above, you won't be surprised that I genuinely am no longer sure that I have the same admiration for the company, or indeed that it is the same company that made me join this forum and buy the LE. There is always a possibility to get back the good feeling. The discount is not the most important issue here. I hope I made my point. It depends on the way CW personally responds at this message.

I hope you can understand my remark that your earlier answer was too easy, Wera.

Thanks and regards,

Ron Hamelberg
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Re: Forum LE

Post by Daz »

:(
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Re: Forum LE

Post by Ron Hamelberg »

Hey Daz,

Just read my message carefully... Maybe you come yo another conclusion....
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Re: Forum LE

Post by Kip »

I am sorry Ron but I must take exception to your post in general.

I agree that the wait was long, but it was always anticipated for the LE's and was plainly stated early on in the process. In fact, based on info from Chris, Hans stated that the first round was due to be shipped in Nov. of 2007 and in fact shipped just before Christmas. Not bad for a special run. Hans also stated that the 2nd batch was due to ship in the spring of 2008. Depending on how critical you wish to be on the actual dates, this could almost be construed as on time delivery. During this time CWL faced inumerable delays getting movements from eta. When they did arrive, they were not as ordered, and although perhaps not handled completely correct, CW decided to ship rather than have any further delays.

In case you hadn't noticed CWL has run out of stock on several watches as a result of delays from ETA. CWL sent out a notice (damn, I wish I still had a copy) offering discounts to those who had watches on order thru the website. As the LE was not a regular order nor being ordered thru the site, no discount was being offered or inferred. Somewhere at the time of the email (I apoligize, as I cannot locate it) we did have some discussion about this.

On this I must agree. The quality control for whatever reason has suffered during this rush to ship and a rash of damaged straps has somehow got out. You have to believe that Chris is aware by now as this has been beat to death over the past couple of weeks.

I will defend your right to post virtually anything on this forum, but if you have a gripe with CWL or any other company...take it to the company and give them time to make you satisfied if possible. I can't explain the inconsistancies of the companies response, nor is it my place to, but good lord man, Give a little to human error and the pressures involved. This is not life and death here. This is about a wristwatch. And if all else fails..send it back! It is your right under the CWL return policy.

Vent your concerns, complain if you must, but direct them where they will do the most good, and be sure of your facts!

FYI... my LE arrived with the bracelet attached only on one side. I put it on and sent an email to Chris to let him know. End of story.
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Re: Forum LE

Post by bydandie »

Guys, if I'm reading Ron's post correctly he's been told by Wera that Chris had planned all along to have a white date dial.

I admit that I'm not sure if he's looking for a discount here and the email content is out of context for me and I feel unfair on CW and Wera posting in this forum, but I'm also reading that he bought into the CW philosophy and has been disappointed in the results from the forum LE. This is becoming a recurrent theme, and if there is inconsistencies in information then that doesn't help.

Ron, I really feel that you were out of order with posting the email here and felt that your issues could've been extracted and posted here instead. That said, there are quality control issues here that hopefully will be rectified as this is a critical time for CW in terms of how they react.
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Re: Forum LE

Post by mnementh »

Hi I have read Rons post,it starts out with please read this message but there is no e-mail message there that I can see.If the discount was only for the aviator and the e-mail was sent to me by mistake well so what.I did not expect a discount when I decided to stick with my LE order I just wanted the watch.I have now got the watch and am so pleased with it that I have not worn any of my other watches since I got it,which is a bit of a pain as I am having to hand wind these watches to keep them going.Malvern C5 and a Ball Fireman night train both automatics.Also if you read one of the other posts I think it's an answer to cushie it does include an e-mail from Wera stating that it was a mistake by ETA not CW that the movements came with a white datewheel which I must admit that even if I could change I wouldn't.Although that said the e-mail I received did not specify aviators only,and I did post the full text of the e-mail not excerpts and that post has not been commented on at all.As far as being construed as on time delivery is concerned Chris didn't think so or the e-mail asking if we wanted to cancel or stick with the order would never have been sent.They were meant to be delivered around March but this was out of Chris's control and not his fault.
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Re: Forum LE

Post by CFK-OB »

Hi Ron. I appreciate your frustrations, much of which come from the communication or lack thereof from CWL. Some points:

1. I too believed when I received the mail about the discount that it also applied to the LE. I didn't see why it wouldn't. If others received the discount for their patience, then why not the LE customers. And I also conclude that it is probably because we were less likely to drop the order, and even if a few did, there were plenty more people on the waiting list. I understand CWL on this. In business, you charge what you can. I was happy with the price when I ordered it and I am just as happy with the price now. Chris could have extended the discount to us, but I think he has alreay taken a large hit on business due to the issues with ETA, and I for one do not feel the need to hurt his profits any more for a small amount of money.

2. You directly quoted from one of my posts -
"I bought the forum LE because I love the design of the Kingfisher and with the automatic movement it was a watch I wanted to buy. But just as important to me was the 'feeling' I was getting about the CW company. Finally, a watch company that cared, that had a really good base of supporters with great stories to tell, and had a great philosophy of bringing great watches to the average person. Because of that, I wanted to support CW and would have been proud to wear one of his watches."
I don't have an issue with people quoting me, but I'm not sure I liked the context that you used it in and without reference to the original post.

3. There has been a lot of issues with the watches going out, but really they are almost all QC issues. CWL had so many watches to go through that it was bound to happen. That doesn't excuse it and they need to use this month as a baromoter for 'how not to do things', but I'm sure they will learn from this and solve the issues. However, I do understand people's frustrations.

4. You are correct that the wait was longer than it shouls have been. Kip, I think you are being unfair on this point. Everyone was given a March ship date which slipped almost a further three months. It cannot be construed as 'on-time' no matter how you try to spin it. However, this delay was totally outside of the control of CWL and you cannot blame them for that. Where I think they let themselves down a bit was by trying to get everything out too quickly, but I also understand that they were under pressure and wanted to get the watches out to us as soon as the movement were available.

5. I think one of the main points you are trying to make is that Wera is claiming that the wathces were meant to be like that anyway. This is blatantly not true and she should not have said that. It would appear that they are trying to dig themselves out of a potential hole here, which is wrong. They really are not helping themselves with a response like that.

6. You are correct that the communication from CWL on the LE has been poor and they need, again, to use this feedback to correct some customer service issues.

Finally, this is a forum and a place for discussion. You are entitled to your opinion and I hope nothing changes on here to prevent people posting what they want (within legal reason of course). However, in this instance, this was an e-mail between you and CWL. I'm not sure you should have posted it verbatim - at least not without also posting the response from CWL to give a proper and balanced view.
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Re: Forum LE

Post by Kip »

CFK-OB wrote: 4. You are correct that the wait was longer than it shouls have been. Kip, I think you are being unfair on this point. Everyone was given a March ship date which slipped almost a further three months. It cannot be construed as 'on-time' no matter how you try to spin it. However, this delay was totally outside of the control of CWL and you cannot blame them for that. Where I think they let themselves down a bit was by trying to get everything out too quickly, but I also understand that they were under pressure and wanted to get the watches out to us as soon as the movement were available.
I am not sure I am being unfair at all as to the delivery time... my statement was based on this post..
http://www.christopherwardforum.com/vie ... a&start=60

....to my knowledge it was not revised until January of this year, based on an email you yourself had received.

I am sorry if I spouted off. But I am getting tired of misdirected criticism for things beyond ones control. Movement delays are old news. We should be expecting the worst.
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Re: Forum LE

Post by CFK-OB »

Hi Kip. The initial indications were early spring. After January, anyone who asked was given a ship date of the middle to end of March. This obviously slipped as a result of the movement issues, which as I've said is outside of Chris's control. One have to accept patience on that.

I agree that the posts have been going towards negative this month, but I'm sure that will change once everything gets sorted.
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Re: Forum LE

Post by cushie »

With regards to CW and the LE i know i have been a little negative lately but felt sorely let down to get a watch in such a fashion and getting nowhere with phone calls to find out where it was once despatched (negative over)
I have sent the watch back it is having a new strap fixed to it and will be sent out with new presentation boxes and if anyone read my earlier post with the email response from Wera she did apologise for the white date wheel which again was out of their control as were the ETA movements.
A further mail from Wera yesterday stated that she will have my watch back to me by saturday of this week 28/06/2008 so its been turned around and back in my hand in 6 days which i do find impressive and good customer service.
Now i have calmed down and looked at the situation i now feel CW just had a hiccup with such a large shipment to get out to customers as the 2 C5skk's delivered the week before my LE were absolutely perfect and my whole confidence that CW will learn from this experience is growing and i am pretty sure he would not let it happen again and the old term 'less speed more haste rings' true in this case.

Thanks KIP for helping me 'keep the faith' patience is all it took. :D
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Re: Forum LE

Post by Ron Hamelberg »

Hey Boys,

Thanks for all comments (positive and negative). You have to know that I love watches very much. I love the KF LE too!! Stunning looks!! A beauty!! Do I have to say more??

Maybe you wonder about my critical post and in a certain way I can understand your reactions. Maybe I shouldn't have posted the personal email, but I really felt I had to do so. It's normally not my style to react in a way like I did yesterday. If I should recieve an email like the one I sent, I personally should have replied it very soon. CW did'nt! They can have their reasons for that, but they have'nt told me about it. That's why I placed it verbatim on the Internet! Normally this is not my style. I give everyone a chance to correct their errors, but if they don't respond.....I can understand the problems with the delivery of so much watches in a short time. But, keep it clear and simple. If you sell bad (untrue) arguments it comes out at a certain moment. **** happens!! I'm really, really allergic to that sort of things!

I did'nt ask for a discount and I didn't expected it too! The original price was and is close to best value for money. Although I recieved an email from CW where they announced me a 10% discount. I replied and told them that I was pleased with the special offer. The reason for it was to compensate the long waiting period. I was not the only one who recieved this email. Later I was told this email had to be sent only to Aviator customers, not to LE customers.....

The untrues and the cancelling of the discount was an addition of facts which made me pretty unhappy. The good feeling dissapeared and the discussion started....

I want to enjoy my watches and it's not my style to complain. I sometimes love the story of a watch more than the watch itself. That maybe tells you something about the way I look at it.

Grtz Ron
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