NPD T4 project

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
Locked
User avatar
H0rati0
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2243
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:49 am
CW-watches: 4
Location: Alpenvorland
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by H0rati0 »

JAFO wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:05 pm
I appreciate the point. As possibly a minority view, I am happy without a screw down crown, and without ever seriously testing a water resistance rating, to be honest.
Whilst I agree that a screw down crown is not necessary for WR, a modern diver cannot do without a screw down crown - marketing disaster. The C60 has always been a proper diver ie SCUBA capable at least.

One must look elsewhere in the CW offering for WR without a screw down crown, eg the Cranwell.
"There is no beginning to enlightenment and no end to training" - Dogen Zenji (1200-1253)
User avatar
Kip
The Administrator
The Administrator
Posts: 32290
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:45 pm
CW-watches: 146
LE-one: yes
LE-two: yes
LE-three: yes
LE-foura: yes
LE-fourb: yes
LE-five: yes
LE-six: yes
LESeven: yes
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Kip »

Following on with the summaries…

There hasn’t been much mention of the crystal so far so this one is simple.

Crystal

Due to the lack of crystal mentions it would seem that most are very satisfied with the current version.

Some would like to see improved AR coatings or the use of a “Museum Grade” crystal to enhance clarity.

One comment has suggested a narrower inside edge of the bezel to allow larger dials and crystals without enlarging overall case size. The thinking being a more streamlined appearance and enhanced visibility in smaller sizes.
Kip

"Asylum Administrator"


Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
Blackdog
Senior
Senior
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:47 am
CW-watches: 2
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Blackdog »

Kip wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:51 am Following on with the summaries…

There hasn’t been much mention of the crystal so far so this one is simple.

Crystal

Due to the lack of crystal mentions it would seem that most are very satisfied with the current version.

Some would like to see improved AR coatings or the use of a “Museum Grade” crystal to enhance clarity.

One comment has suggested a narrower inside edge of the bezel to allow larger dials and crystals without enlarging overall case size. The thinking being a more streamlined appearance and enhanced visibility in smaller sizes.
If I may add something about the crystal, I think a lightly domed one would be an improvement. Nothing dramatic, as the C60 is a modern watch and we don't want to add much thickness. But a gentle double dome with internal AR will also help with reflections.
albionphoto
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:07 pm
CW-watches: 7
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by albionphoto »

Case - The Light-catcher(TM) case is excellent. Case diameters should be 40 - 42 (42 preferred for me). If you could shave even 0.5 mm off the height that would be great.
Case Back - I like the solid caseback with the stamped trident. If you go for an open case back then consider etching or printing the trident logo onto it (on the side next to the movement)
Bezel - More brushed ceramic bezels.
Crystal - Flat sapphire is fine with me.
Movement - Can we gain even a couple more hours of power reserve? If a GMT is it possible to have an independent hour hand?
Dial/hands - The sacrificial dagger hour hand is too Seiko like. Please consider a return to the Mk II hour hand, or a development of that.
Logo/Twin Flag device - If the twin flag device is to be used it should be applied and at the 12 o'clock position. Then return to the CW on the crown.
Bracelet/straps - Screwed end links.
Misc./comments:
Dial - matt not gloss. No guilloche. EVER!!!
Indices - Indices much preferred. Please no arabics or, especially, no roman numerals.

Colour way combinations - How about limited editions with say white dial/blue bezel, white dial/green bezel. Maybe a new LE colourway every quarter?
Mark
Bremont, Casio, Citizen, Christopher Ward, Omega, and Oris
Lavaine
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3566
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:45 pm
CW-watches: 5
Location: Alberta, Canada (The Great White North, eh!)
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Lavaine »

Kip wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:51 am One comment has suggested a narrower inside edge of the bezel to allow larger dials and crystals without enlarging overall case size. The thinking being a more streamlined appearance and enhanced visibility in smaller sizes.
I understand why some would want a narrower bezel, but from CW's perspective, I think a narrower bezel on the C60 would have it encroaching on the C65 in terms of design. I think the current thick bezel ensures the two remain far apart in terms of style.
2017 CW Forum "Darwin Award" winner.
Macca
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Macca »

Lavaine wrote:I'd prefer a thinner watch with a 300m depth rating. I'm sure being able to boast 600m WR stimulates sales, but it has zero practicality for virtually all buyers. Maybe a 300m and 600m option? I don't think they would even need a price difference.

Lumed ceramic dial

A white dial with black hands and markers (think Explorer II Polar).

Colour matched date wheel.
This is a great idea


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
TigerChris
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:51 pm
CW-watches: 1
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by TigerChris »

Lavaine wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:15 pm
Kip wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:51 am One comment has suggested a narrower inside edge of the bezel to allow larger dials and crystals without enlarging overall case size. The thinking being a more streamlined appearance and enhanced visibility in smaller sizes.
I understand why some would want a narrower bezel, but from CW's perspective, I think a narrower bezel on the C60 would have it encroaching on the C65 in terms of design. I think the current thick bezel ensures the two remain far apart in terms of style.
Personally I think that CW have really hit on a fantastic bezel idea with the C60 #Tide. I’d like to see that become the new standard C60 bezel, with a matt ceramic option available if at all possible.
albionphoto
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:07 pm
CW-watches: 7
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by albionphoto »

I am a CW fan (obviously) but also an Omega fan. A lot of the recent Omega watches have been very flashy (shouty even; look at me, how glossy and shiny I am). I'm not going to buy an Aqua Terra small seconds in any guise because they are very loud watches to wear. They are too shiny and flashy... I want to wearIn general I prefer my watches to be large (I'm probably never going to buy a 40mm or smaller watch again) but to be more refined in character. The Light-catcher(TM) case is great but it doesn't want or need to have any more polished surfaces. Likewise polished dials and sunburst dials can very quickly become too much. A ceramic bezel is fine but a brushed ceramic bezel that avoids the glossy, plasticky look many ceramic bezels have is even better.
Mark
Bremont, Casio, Citizen, Christopher Ward, Omega, and Oris
audio.bill
Expert
Expert
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:11 am
CW-watches: 4
Location: Chicago suburbs
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by audio.bill »

albionphoto wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:21 pm ... A ceramic bezel is fine but a brushed ceramic bezel that avoids the glossy, plasticky look many ceramic bezels have is even better.
I agree with this and find the brushed bezels like CW has on the C60 Elite and Ombre' models is exceptional in appearance and much more unique than the polished bezels. 8)
albionphoto
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:07 pm
CW-watches: 7
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by albionphoto »

Tactile dissonance...
What do I mean by "Tactile dissonance"? To me this means that when you touch something it feels wrong (e.g., this could be rough when you're expecting smooth, or sharp when you're expecting, smooth). Sharp edges are often a sign of manufacturing quality in some areas (think lugs). If you brush your finger past the edge of a lug when wearing a strap this can feel sharp. That feels wrong when the rest of the watch is smooth. Beveled edges and no sharp points feel nicer.

Then there is the crown... The twin flags logo looks good when it is stamped on the crown. It feels rough though. Lovingly brush your finger across a twin flags crown and the roughness caused by all those little edges ruins the sensation. The old CW crown didn't do this.

I'm sounding like an inveterate "watch fondler" but when we talk about design it's mostly about how the watch looks. Personally I think design should also include how a watch feels as well.
Mark
Bremont, Casio, Citizen, Christopher Ward, Omega, and Oris
Dickchins
Senior Guru
Senior Guru
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 12:00 pm
CW-watches: 6
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Dickchins »

albionphoto wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:10 pm Tactile dissonance...
What do I mean by "Tactile dissonance"? To me this means that when you touch something it feels wrong (e.g., this could be rough when you're expecting smooth, or sharp when you're expecting, smooth). Sharp edges are often a sign of manufacturing quality in some areas (think lugs). If you brush your finger past the edge of a lug when wearing a strap this can feel sharp. That feels wrong when the rest of the watch is smooth. Beveled edges and no sharp points feel nicer.

Then there is the crown... The twin flags logo looks good when it is stamped on the crown. It feels rough though. Lovingly brush your finger across a twin flags crown and the roughness caused by all those little edges ruins the sensation. The old CW crown didn't do this.

I'm sounding like an inveterate "watch fondler" but when we talk about design it's mostly about how the watch looks. Personally I think design should also include how a watch feels as well.

Agreed. Its the small details that show the true quality of a manufacturer in any sector. Moreso in the watch sector imo.
User avatar
Kip
The Administrator
The Administrator
Posts: 32290
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:45 pm
CW-watches: 146
LE-one: yes
LE-two: yes
LE-three: yes
LE-foura: yes
LE-fourb: yes
LE-five: yes
LE-six: yes
LESeven: yes
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Kip »

Moving on to the ...

Bezel Summary


There seems to be little question that retaining the ceramic bezel is the way to go. However, a slightly narrow bezel seems to be favored, although not unanimously.

There is a very strong feeling that the use of the #tide 2 part bezel would enhance the looks along with changing the ceramic to a matte finish.

Several have suggested the use of a bidirectional bezel in the standard model, but certainly to be continued with GMT versions. Not sure how practical that is in a proper diver. Perhaps if 2 versions then a bi and uni bezel could be offered. There was one suggestion of a 12 hour bi directional bezel.

There was also mention of bringing back the “pip” at 12.

Another common theme was having a factory option of different bezel color “inserts” available either as a service item or user replacement. Possibly offer a bezel kit containing required items for insert change or for a complete bezel exchange.

Use of different colored lumes on bezel and count down area was also mentioned.

Most definitely retain the use of lumed bezels.
Kip

"Asylum Administrator"


Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
User avatar
Amor Vincit Omnia
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26038
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:34 pm
CW-watches: 5
Location: Norfolk, UK
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Kip wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:08 pm There is a very strong feeling that the use of the #tide 2 part bezel would enhance the looks along with changing the ceramic to a matte finish.
I must say that when I owned a Mk2 GMT I really liked having the glossy ceramic bezel.
Steve
Linguistic sophist; retired teacher; pilgrim; wannabe travel writer

Walk a while in others' shoes...

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time
StrappedUp
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 2579
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 2:14 pm
CW-watches: 0
Location: South Wales
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by StrappedUp »

Kip wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:08 pm There is a very strong feeling that the use of the #tide 2 part bezel would enhance the looks along with changing the ceramic to a matte finish.
Changing over to the tide bezel AND a matte ceramic bezel across the board would carry a fair degree of risk imo. The MK2 and MK3 C60s have been highly successful for CW, so I can't see how changing the 'customer-facing' aesthetics so dramatically would be in their best interests.
I wouldn't be against a mixture of shiny/mate ceramics though.

After all, I'd wager a bet that the majority of the general public would opt for 'shiny, shiny' over brushed and matte finishes, and CW need to be targeting these people as well.
Ryan
User avatar
nbg
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 9967
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:43 pm
CW-watches: 12
Location: UK
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: NPD T4 project

Post by nbg »

^^^ Agreed Ryan.

The objective of the exercise for CW is to create a design that will appeal to a wider audience.

Not to create a watch that is designed to appeal to folk that already have a few CW dive watches and now just want something different as an addition to a collection.

Whilst not my cup of tea I reckon that shiny shiny would appeal to a greater audience than matt.

They could probably just stick twin flags at 12 and remove the makers name from the dial and still end up with a run away success. :)

Neil
Other watch forums of interest:
TZ-UK
Locked