NPD T4 project

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Kip
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NPD T4 project

Post by Kip »

Most of you are aware that CW keeps a watchful eye on this forum. They follow some topics to see what we like and dislike etc. Although, seemingly, they may not always react quickly to changes/suggestions, sometimes they do when there are issues. The point here is that they do value our input.

Along this train of thought, many of you have put up posts with suggestions or what ifs when it came to changes you would like to see in a model or perhaps to make in future models. Much talk recently of changes to a possible C60 MK 4 for example as can be seen here, plus talk of innovations in this topic. There is always lots of …if this was that I would buy it. If they only did this…I won’t even start on the logo discussions.

So…

Yes, there will be a C60 Trident MK 4 (T4). CW tells me this is inevitable. We don’t know when, but it will happen. New products take time. The C60 Trident has been the Flagship for years now so why not let it continue to evolve.

CW has a program they refer to in house as New Product Development (NPD). They are inviting us to submit to them our ideas for a new and improved T4. This is your opportunity to truly have direct input to the development of next version of the C60 Trident.

Consider this a brainstorming session. You are all now on the ground floor of the T4 development. We are starting with a blank page. No idea is too ridiculous currently. Go ahead, put it out there. Be subtle, be radical, be creative, it might stimulate an idea with someone else. Consider all aspects of the watch. The case, case back, crystal, dial, hands, bezel, colors, straps etc. What do you think would work? Do a photoshop if you wish to demonstrate your idea.

The Admin Team will condense and collate all the ideas for submission directly to the NPD team at CW. The NPD team has promised to report back to me, at some point, with a sort of, progress report. How this will work I don’t know, but now is what matters.

This is a bit of an experiment. While we are certain that CW pays attention to various suggestions, we are not certain that a process like this has ever been provided for a forum like ours. This is your chance. This is not an FLE. This is for a full production model, and you are invited to participate in the development. This is not a “design by committee”. It is to gather input from informed consumers, dare I say critics of CW, to further develop the next generation of CW’s most successful model.

You are all very familiar with the C60 Trident. If you need further information regarding existing or prior specifications, you can view all Tridents in the CWArchives or do a forum search.

Although the current C60 light-catcher™ case seems a logical place to start, you are not restricted in any way.

Discuss all you want but get those ideas flowing. A new T4 awaits us all........and CW is watching!!!!
Kip

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NPD T4 project

Post by nowttolose »

Dual flags logo (current CW logo is not marmite. Lots of people hate it, many are OK with it, but very few truly like it)

Screw link bracelet. Updated, less fiddly micro adjustment.

In-house movement optionality (if you want to spend more $$)

Display back case option

300m depth rating max may help save a little $$. 600m is not required on an entry level diver.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Lavaine »

I'd prefer a thinner watch with a 300m depth rating. I'm sure being able to boast 600m WR stimulates sales, but it has zero practicality for virtually all buyers. Maybe a 300m and 600m option? I don't think they would even need a price difference.

Lumed ceramic dial

A white dial with black hands and markers (think Explorer II Polar).

Colour matched date wheel.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Bident »

^^^ +1 for thinner watch at 300mm depth rating. Or, perhaps continue to offer the Pro at 600mm and introduce a simple C60 Trident (no Pro) at 300mm that is thinner.

I would also prefer having just the twin flags logo, applied, with no brand name, at 12 o'clock and date window at 6 o'clock.

A 12 hour, bi-directional bezel option would be nice to have, fully lumed of course.

Color matched date wheel and a contrasting color for the seconds hand. For a white dialed version, black coated hands and hour markers (instead of gunmetal).

Thanks for soliciting our input.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by strapline »

I think this is a great project to get involved with if you are or have been a Trident fan. I think it's great that CW acknowledges the opinion of some of its most stalwart customers/fans. I do not own a Trident so I feel my opinion would be of limited value. I have seen it evolve through its various iterations, though. One change that I would like to see to T4 would be a return to some kind of dial texture, I was always a fan of the guiloche wave pattern on earlier dials. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how this thread develops; there should be a lot of input out there.

Des
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by JAFO »

I agree with thinner watch. Hand wind, or lower water resistance.

Applied twin flags at 12.

Sorry about discussing the word brand again The word brand needs to be smaller, or not at all. Look at small caps for the whole thing and on one line. Similar to Raymond Weil, and Vacheron Constantin.

Offer an optional display case back, replacement or an add on extra.

Maybe offer alternative bezel insert colours, either as factory fit, but really as a user replacement. Just sell an insert pack with solvent, different coloured bezel and a sticky tape ring. No watch maker does this, and owners would love it I think.

White dial C60 with a rainbow bezel. Black dial with a green bezel.

I've no real idea on watch design. CW manage that pretty well. I do prefer a less cluttered design though. Minimal markings, simple minute track.

Edit. Based on earlier suggestions by others. Yes to single screw bracelet, or even push pin, rather than pin and collar.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by iain »

I’ve owned a few Tridents is different sizes, different colours, different case materials and both GMT and standard versions.

For me I’d like to see some stability starting to appear. I’d prefer radical designs being produced through sister models like the C63, C65 or maybe a new C62 range. The trident as the flagship model should now start to become move of a the slow evolving watch of the range. If CW want to take the step to the next level they need to consider the Trident their submariner, seamaster or Aquis and don’t radically tinker with the design.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by ssholloway21 »

iain wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:06 am I’ve owned a few Tridents is different sizes, different colours, different case materials and both GMT and standard versions.

For me I’d like to see some stability starting to appear. I’d prefer radical designs being produced through sister models like the C63, C65 or maybe a new C62 range. The trident as the flagship model should now start to become move of a the slow evolving watch of the range. If CW want to take the step to the next level they need to consider the Trident their submariner, seamaster or Aquis and don’t radically tinker with the design.
I agree! There should be longevity with this watch to create that timeless design. The same goes with the logo, does not matter to me what or where, just decide and keep it consistent. I would like to see this brand move up market slightly, use the in-house movement, decorated, with a display case-back but add those over time. No radical changes. Just my thoughts.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by stefs »

I actually think the current version is pretty damned good! However the minor changes for me..
A bit thinner if possible even if it drops the WR to 300. (Think seamaster rather than planet ocean)
Make the move to a 12 oclock twin flags logo. If it could be applied and lumed that would be very attractive.
Bright colour options. The yellow from the c65 LE diver was a lovely colour and the range from the doxa divers would be a good starting point.
Inclusion of a Ti model would be appreciated by a good few I would imagine.
The bracelet and strap options are already really good but an integrated rubber design would be the icing on the cake.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by StrappedUp »

I'm also a fan of the overall design of the MK3, despite not owning one.

They should definitely stick with the lines of the Lightcatcher cases. If they want to evolve them slightly, fine, but these should be a constant moving forward.

An applied, polished/laser engraved twin flags at 12 with the brand underneath if required.

Another vote here for it being thinner, even at the expense of WR.

+1 Fitted straps as well. As good as the materials are on some of the current straps, the fitment to the lugs leave a lot to be desired on some models, especially for a brand on the march upwards.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by A1soknownas »

The current C60 MK3 is close to perfect and shouldn't change dramatically. Consistency and incremental development is key in my opinion and radical change is not required. The characteristics of the current MK3 such as the ceramic lumed bezel, case finishing, bracelet quality with QR and easy micro adjust etc are areas which it already excels. Minor areas of development which would persuade me to move from the MK3 to 4 would include -

- Improved movement with greater power reserve / or some guarantee of improved movement accuracy (higher grade) / in-house check.

- The WR of 600m is a selling point but the reduction to 300m would not be an issue for most, although the height of the 40mm is fine and wears well in my opinion.

- Exhibition case back as with the sapphire without the need to compromise WR.

- The dial design of the C63 Sealander Automatic should be adopted by the C60 range with the date at 6 to create a balanced dial with the wordmark/logo at 12 - I wouldn't insist on flags etc and should follow the rest of the brand.

- coloured tip of the second hand as with the C60 sapphire, C63's and C60 elite.

- Possibly the use of different coloured lume on parts of the watch. i.e. triangle or bezel countdown area.

- The base of the hour and minute hands should be shorter if possible. It is only minor but the base of the minute hand overlaps the larger part of the hour hand at times and cuts across the sword arrow shape. It just looks like there is lack of attention to detail in how the hands work together.

- Although a tool watch that is intended to be legible and simple, there could be more interest to the flat dial either by creating texture or a low level sunray effect.

Above all the important part is getting the release right and consistency of quality in the product. There have been too many instances of either a misprinted dial, off centre, wrong water resistance stated, wrong movement/accuracy listed. Or with the MK3 the promotion of the new bezel did not live up to the promise for some including me who was told it was in tolerance where it clicked laterally (6&12) and moved away from the crystal with a level of quality below that of a £150 dive watch. CW are only as good as the worst watch they are prepared to let out of the door so no matter what improvements are made to the MK4, the quality of the product needs to be consistent and customers treated with respect rather than disingenuous contempt when escalating a clear under-performing product.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by strapline »

...just had another thought, as you do. I see in these early posts there has been a few mentions already about the logo and its placement. I'm inclined to agree with the twin flags at 12 (done really well, perhaps raised and faceted like the indexes). Then, if CW was prepared to re-register its name to Christopher Ward International - given that it bases its ops in two different countries - they could go with the mirror version of IWC...CWI. Three initials in a really nice font under the two flags; I think that would work really well. I can't remember anyone having a gripe with IWC's logo.

PS. This is probably fantasy stuff. I think CW are more than happy with their logo, the discussion has generally lost a lot of momentum these days. No bad thing given some of the fine watches that come out over the last couple of years in particular. :D

Des
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Stuart1 »

Blue dial/ blue bezel, Black dial / black bezel, White dial / black bezel, White dial / blue bezel
Applied twin flag logo at the 12.
Underneath twin flag logo 'Trident' in contrast colour
Date at the 6 position and a non date version
Date wheel to match dial = black / silver text, blue / silver text, White / black text
'Christopher Ward' dropped
Solid caseback = SW movement is not that pretty
WR 300 or 600 = to keep to same price point.
Change case size 39mm & 41mm
Just a couple of thoughts
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Dickchins »

iain wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:06 am I’ve owned a few Tridents is different sizes, different colours, different case materials and both GMT and standard versions.

For me I’d like to see some stability starting to appear. I’d prefer radical designs being produced through sister models like the C63, C65 or maybe a new C62 range. The trident as the flagship model should now start to become move of a the slow evolving watch of the range. If CW want to take the step to the next level they need to consider the Trident their submariner, seamaster or Aquis and don’t radically tinker with the design.

Absolutely agree 110%

Personally I believe when a manufacturer develops a certain line/model, and just tweaks it every so often in order to freshen things up, it shows confidence and contentment in their own creation.

Rolex, Omega, coke, pepsi, VW golf, mini.......
Some things dont need to be hammered around all the time. They just need a little tweak to freshen up!!!!!

I love the idea of a bezel kit that customers can play around with. Thats thinking outside the box big time!

The wr makes no odds to me at 300 or 600. The twin flag logo at 12 seems to be a constant so far, and I share the thoughts on it. Brand identity. Lumed would be ace!
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by jtc »

Twin flags motif is a must. Now Chris has left the company, if a new model were to come along as a bit of a new dawn, why not drop the company name from the dial too?

I might be in the minority, but I'm not the biggest fan of the latest C60 hands. I'd like to see something different on the next version to set it apart.

An exhibition case back would be great, especially if a handwound movement. That may just me being an old romantic, but I'd love to see more handwound exhibition case backs - mine are auto! Extra brownie points if it has an added complication.

I'd like to see a slightly slimmer case, though the light catcher design is great. It's a bit shiny for my taste though, so more use of matt with polished surfaces.

While I can appreciate the appeal, I've never really liked glossy ceramic bezels - especially of larger widths. The more recent CW's without them have looked great.

Lume and lots of it - it's a dive/sport watch! The recent use on the dial and bezel is great, so more of that please. I always thought I wanted a full lumed dial, but never found the all white aesthetic that pleasing...

Colour matched date wheels are a must. CW have historically been good at this, but just adding as a necessity!

QR bracelet and a +1 strap option in the box, as a bundle. Benefit from a more complete all occasions offering and economies of scale. Win win!
Jon

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