New limited edition releases

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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

^^^^Thank you for the update, Mark.

As one had expected it should be and kudos to CW on giving you an immediate refund.

All's well that ends well.

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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by A1soknownas »

Gripper wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:33 pm
Just to update and give credit where credit's due, I have just received an email advising me that the customer service administrator was unaware of the circumstances I described when they sent the original email and have now confirmed that the amount paid for the watch will be, and has been, refunded in full and apologising for any confusion and inconvenience caused. All dealt with promptly and professionally, somewhat restoring my faith in the brand :thumbup:
Excellent news :thumbup:
Good to see it resolved without any more trouble.

Good luck on finding an alternative with the refunded cash!
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Deks »

Thankyou so much for all the brilliant information from Kip. I have a quick question

I just received my AM 2VEV to add to my collection and the info booklet about the watch and movement is showing mine has the 251.233 with an accuracy of +/-15 seconds per year. According to the website it is now shipping with the less accurate 251.264. Do you think I got the 251.233 movement or do you think I have been sent the wrong booklet and they are all 251.264 now? If it is the later, as this is limited edition watch for my collection, I would at least like the correct documentation with the watch
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by michaelro1 »

Kip wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:50 pm
Regarding the C65 AM VEV movements discussion.

Let me apologize for taking longer than I had hoped to get back with the correct information, but I wanted to be accurate.

I have consulted with CW and they have also contacted ETA so that we get accurate information. CW have also confirmed that they will be releasing the remaining C65 AM VEV 2’s with an ETA 251.264 movement very soon. They will also be relaunching any remaining C65 AM VEV 1 with a correctly stated movement.

This information below is directly from ETA:

C65 AM VEV 1

ETA 251.272
Typical: +36.5 seconds a year
Minimum -109.5 seconds a year
Maximum +182.5 seconds a year
+15/-9 seconds per month

ETA 251.274 (Replacement for 251.272)
Typical: +-10 seconds a year
Minimum and maximum: +- 26 seconds a year

C65 AM VEV 2

ETA 251.233
Typical: 0 seconds a year
Minimum and maximum: +- 25.55 seconds a year

ETA 251.264 (Replacement for 251.233)
Typical +/- 10 seconds a year
Minimum and maximum +/- 26 seconds per year

Now let me explain the movements in question.

ETA 251.233 - This movement was previously used in the C30 and C70 Chronometers as a COSC movement. The same movement was used in the C65 AM VEV2 but was not COSC. Although previously certified the COSC papers were missing so they were sold as non COSC. It remains a thermo-compensated movement although the rating of -15/+15 seconds per year as stated in the website description would seem to be a few seconds off.

ETA 251.264 – This is the replacement movement for the now discontinued 251.233. It is a thermo-compensated movement. This movement is also within COSC specs but does not have certificates and will not be certified. This non COSC movement is rated Typical +/- 10 seconds a year with minimum and maximum +/- 26 seconds per year.

ETA 251.272 – This movement was previously used in the original C7 and C70 series. They were rated at +20/-10 seconds per month. This movement has been discontinued. Later versions, as used in the C65 AM VEV 1 carry a “typical” rating of +36.5 seconds per year but are considered within spec if +15/-9 seconds per month and -109.5 seconds a year/+182.5 seconds a year.

Over the past 5 years ETA improved this movement and changed the way of communicating the accuracy

ETA 251.274 – This was the replacement for the 251.272 movement. This carries a “typical” rating of +10/-10 seconds per year but is considered within spec at +/- 26 seconds per year.

The CW website was incorrect in that it stated “thermo-compensated” movements for the ETA 251.274. Neither the 272 or 274 are “thermo-compensated”. The 251.272 was also listed showing +10/-10 seconds per year. This also was incorrect as you can see by the information above and was corrected near the end of sales. However the new movement in VEV 2 (ETA 251.264) is thermo compensated.

CW sincerely apologizes for the misinformation on the website as do I for my previous post that was not entirely accurate. Should anyone have any further inquiries, Jörg Bader, Head of Christopher Ward SA, would be happy to discuss the various differences and merits of each movement with any member of the forum. His email is: jorg.bader.sen@christopherward.ch. If you would like to speak to customer services about your order, the normal process should be followed by emailing customerservices@christopherward.co.uk and one of the team will respond.

As you can see there are accuracy differences between the 272 and 274. How much that potential 3 ½ minutes per year difference matters is entirely up to you. Any of these movements is very accurate.

To get everything together, here is how you can tell which movement you have (251.272 or 251.274)

RESETTING THE COUNTERS TO ZERO

CALIBRE TYPE - If the chronograph hands spin when you pull the crown out to
position 2, you have an ETA calibre 251.274. If the chronograph hands do not
spin, you have a calibre 241.272.

RESETTING THE COUNTERS TO ZERO ON THE CALIBRE 251.274
1. Pull the crown out to position 2.

2. Press pusher A to select the desired counter:
30-minute counter
60-second counter
or 1/10th-of-a-second counter

3. Press pusher B to reset the counter hand to zero.

RESETTING THE COUNTERS TO ZERO ON THE CALIBRE 251.272
30-minute counter
1. Pull the crown out to position 2.
2. Press pusher B to reset the 30-minute hand to zero.

60-second counter
1. Pull the crown out to position 3.
2. Press pusher A to reset the 60-second hand to zero.
1/10th-of-a-second counter
1. Pull the crown out to position 3.
2. Press pusher B to reset the 1/10th-of-a-second hand to zero
Thanks for this - I have 2VEV and the handbook indicates 233 - Is the 264 better?
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Deks »

Just a quick update. I spoke to CW customer service today and they say all AM 2VEV come with the lesser accurate 251.264 movement now. All watches will come with the information booklet stating your watch has the super accurate 251.233 movement but this is not the case.

I for one think this stinks that they are knowingly shipping a collectors watch with incorrect information to owners about the movement to save money reprinting their booklet and basically hoping noone notices. Thats my humble opinion and I am losing faith in the very high regard I have with Christopher Ward
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Kip »

michaelro1 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:16 pm

Thanks for this - I have 2VEV and the handbook indicates 233 - Is the 264 better?
Better here may come down to personal interpretation. From a purely specs standpoint I think you could say that the 233 is the better movement. The 233 was COSC rated initially. However, ETA decided to replace this with the 264. Why? Unknown.

I would simply be looking at the end result of accuracy and how the individual watch performs. Both are excellent movements and annually the differences are negligible imo.
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Kip »

Deks wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:12 am
Just a quick update. I spoke to CW customer service today and they say all AM 2VEV come with the lesser accurate 251.264 movement now. All watches will come with the information booklet stating your watch has the super accurate 251.233 movement but this is not the case.

I for one think this stinks that they are knowingly shipping a collectors watch with incorrect information to owners about the movement to save money reprinting their booklet and basically hoping noone notices. Thats my humble opinion and I am losing faith in the very high regard I have with Christopher Ward
When did you buy the watch? Was it before or after the mix up was discovered? If before you have recourse. If after the website corrections were made then you knew what you were getting. I agree that CW should have at least made a notation in the manual as to the movements now being shipped, but you can do that if need be.

CW acknowledged the mistake and have made website corrections.
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Deks »

Hi Kip,
I bought the 2VEV after they were back on the site so it is a 264 as advertised my frustration is the booklet hasnt been updated and states its a 233 movement. As it is a LE collectors item Its annoying accompanying document doesnt match the specification of the watch.

I also bought a second 1VEV before all this happened as my first onevwas so accurate I wanted to save it and use the second one as an everiday wear. The first 1VEV was a 274 where the red chrono hand tevolves when you pull the crown out but the second one has the 272 which is less accurate. The website wasnt changed regarding the movement when I bought the second and was stating 10 seconds a year accuracy which it clearly isnt. I had been wearing it daily so couldnt really return it as it has very light marks and customer services said if I did they would mark down its value even tho it didnt match the description on the website
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Leon O »

Deks wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:03 pm
Hi Kip,
I bought the 2VEV after they were back on the site so it is a 264 as advertised my frustration is the booklet hasnt been updated and states its a 233 movement. As it is a LE collectors item Its annoying accompanying document doesnt match the specification of the watch.

I also bought a second 1VEV before all this happened as my first onevwas so accurate I wanted to save it and use the second one as an everiday wear. The first 1VEV was a 274 where the red chrono hand tevolves when you pull the crown out but the second one has the 272 which is less accurate. The website wasnt changed regarding the movement when I bought the second and was stating 10 seconds a year accuracy which it clearly isnt. I had been wearing it daily so couldnt really return it as it has very light marks and customer services said if I did they would mark down its value even tho it didnt match the description on the website
When movements state their expected accuracy in seconds per tear, I think it is hard to consder one less accurate than the other :D
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Deks »

The 274 movement accuracy is amazing. After a month its still within half a second so this looking like its wothin the +/- 10 secs a year. The 272 is gaining a second every few days so until I get a bit more data its looking at around 70 or so seconds a year. Im kind of sad and record all the timings on a spread sheet. I live an exciting life and also collect shovels as a hobby (this bit was a joke 😆).

I'm still checking the 2VEV 233 movement BTW and its probably as stated at around 27secs a year
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by DEV1ST8R »

The second batch of the black bezel version is still available. They seriously haven't sold 150 of them yet? I'm surprised with how much interest the first round generated and how fast it sold out.
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by bonecrusher »

^^^^^ I think it may have sold out now - i can't see it on the website.

CW should have had all this covered from day 1, saying that 1VEV get either XX or XX movement, with 2VEV having either XX or XX and noting on the manual which movement exactly which one your watch has.

Also, play it safe on the accuracy claims, to avoid disappointed buyers. They aren't being sold as chronometer spec so why create possible trouble by making accuracy claims that probably can't be justified. Seems to me that the whole release of these watches was rushed, I mean - what was having 2 batches of 2VEV all about? with a few weeks in the middle where it disappeared from the website and was presumed to have sold out. For a limited run of this size, get them all made up and in stock before releasing them for sale.
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