New limited edition releases

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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Robotaz »

Poor Kip having to help mitigate the confusion CW created. I have no skin in this game, but I do appreciate that these things come up and are dealt with by civil and cooperative parties all around. Good stuff.
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by bonecrusher »

My 2VEV is consistently running at +0.1 secs/day. Which is pretty good, but obviously not near the stated tolerance of +/- 15 secs / year. A little disappointed that it isn't within spec, but I still love it. Does anyone now if these movements are in any way possible to regulate, i.e. if in a few years it goes back to CW for a battery could it be adjusted to within stated spec?
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Kip »

Regarding the C65 AM VEV movements discussion.

Let me apologize for taking longer than I had hoped to get back with the correct information, but I wanted to be accurate.

I have consulted with CW and they have also contacted ETA so that we get accurate information. CW have also confirmed that they will be releasing the remaining C65 AM VEV 2’s with an ETA 251.264 movement very soon. They will also be relaunching any remaining C65 AM VEV 1 with a correctly stated movement.

This information below is directly from ETA:

C65 AM VEV 1

ETA 251.272
Typical: +36.5 seconds a year
Minimum -109.5 seconds a year
Maximum +182.5 seconds a year
+15/-9 seconds per month

ETA 251.274 (Replacement for 251.272)
Typical: +-10 seconds a year
Minimum and maximum: +- 26 seconds a year

C65 AM VEV 2

ETA 251.233
Typical: 0 seconds a year
Minimum and maximum: +- 25.55 seconds a year

ETA 251.264 (Replacement for 251.233)
Typical +/- 10 seconds a year
Minimum and maximum +/- 26 seconds per year

Now let me explain the movements in question.

ETA 251.233 - This movement was previously used in the C30 and C70 Chronometers as a COSC movement. The same movement was used in the C65 AM VEV2 but was not COSC. Although previously certified the COSC papers were missing so they were sold as non COSC. It remains a thermo-compensated movement although the rating of -15/+15 seconds per year as stated in the website description would seem to be a few seconds off.

ETA 251.264 – This is the replacement movement for the now discontinued 251.233. It is a thermo-compensated movement. This movement is also within COSC specs but does not have certificates and will not be certified. This non COSC movement is rated Typical +/- 10 seconds a year with minimum and maximum +/- 26 seconds per year.

ETA 251.272 – This movement was previously used in the original C7 and C70 series. They were rated at +20/-10 seconds per month. This movement has been discontinued. Later versions, as used in the C65 AM VEV 1 carry a “typical” rating of +36.5 seconds per year but are considered within spec if +15/-9 seconds per month and -109.5 seconds a year/+182.5 seconds a year.

Over the past 5 years ETA improved this movement and changed the way of communicating the accuracy

ETA 251.274 – This was the replacement for the 251.272 movement. This carries a “typical” rating of +10/-10 seconds per year but is considered within spec at +/- 26 seconds per year.

The CW website was incorrect in that it stated “thermo-compensated” movements for the ETA 251.274. Neither the 272 or 274 are “thermo-compensated”. The 251.272 was also listed showing +10/-10 seconds per year. This also was incorrect as you can see by the information above and was corrected near the end of sales. However the new movement in VEV 2 (ETA 251.264) is thermo compensated.

CW sincerely apologizes for the misinformation on the website as do I for my previous post that was not entirely accurate. Should anyone have any further inquiries, Jörg Bader, Head of Christopher Ward SA, would be happy to discuss the various differences and merits of each movement with any member of the forum. His email is: jorg.bader.sen@christopherward.ch. If you would like to speak to customer services about your order, the normal process should be followed by emailing customerservices@christopherward.co.uk and one of the team will respond.

As you can see there are accuracy differences between the 272 and 274. How much that potential 3 ½ minutes per year difference matters is entirely up to you. Any of these movements is very accurate.

To get everything together, here is how you can tell which movement you have (251.272 or 251.274)

RESETTING THE COUNTERS TO ZERO

CALIBRE TYPE - If the chronograph hands spin when you pull the crown out to
position 2, you have an ETA calibre 251.274. If the chronograph hands do not
spin, you have a calibre 241.272.

RESETTING THE COUNTERS TO ZERO ON THE CALIBRE 251.274
1. Pull the crown out to position 2.

2. Press pusher A to select the desired counter:
30-minute counter
60-second counter
or 1/10th-of-a-second counter

3. Press pusher B to reset the counter hand to zero.

RESETTING THE COUNTERS TO ZERO ON THE CALIBRE 251.272
30-minute counter
1. Pull the crown out to position 2.
2. Press pusher B to reset the 30-minute hand to zero.

60-second counter
1. Pull the crown out to position 3.
2. Press pusher A to reset the 60-second hand to zero.
1/10th-of-a-second counter
1. Pull the crown out to position 3.
2. Press pusher B to reset the 1/10th-of-a-second hand to zero
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Robotaz »

Wow. Props, Kip.

The most important news from this, to me, is the release of more watches coming soon.
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Lawrence »

Thanks for your efforts on this file Kip.

Appreciated as always.
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by gannet »

Super information from kip, thanks
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by TheBeatles »

Just checked my 1 VEV.

Red chronograph hand spins, so looks like I’ve got the .274 :thumbup:

Edit: forgot to say thanks Kip, for taking the time to clear up any confusion. :clap:
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New limited edition releases

Post by Robotaz »

I just read that the 251.274 is from the Thermoline series of ETA movements, meaning thermocompensated. It does not currently show up as such on the .274 webpage.

I also read the .274 has adjustments for both thermocompensation and time accuracy.

ETA is a terrible source of info, however, so who knows. I have even seen it is a +/- 10 sec movement. Is it?

And to add confusion, there are .274CG and .274CF movement variations. CG is PowerDrive only, whereas CF is PowerDrive and PreciDrive. PreciDrive “can achieve a precision which can surpass COSC” at temps between 20C-30C.
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Kip »

From my post....
ETA 251.274 – This was the replacement for the 251.272 movement. This carries a “typical” rating of +10/-10 seconds per year but is considered within spec at +/- 26 seconds per year.

The CW website was incorrect in that it stated “thermo-compensated” movements for the ETA 251.274. Neither the 272 or 274 are “thermo-compensated”.
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Deks »

I bought 2 AM GT 1 VEV's. I have been monitoring them both before being made aware of any of this. The first one I bought was laser accurate so I decided to buy the second one due to the accuracy of the first as an everyday wear and keep the first in pristine condition. The second one I was disapointed with the accuracy compared to the first. It turns out the first was 274 movement and the second one is 272.

I guess i'm in my rights to return the second one (still within 60 days but worn daily) firstly under the 60 days but secondly under the consumer rights being not as described? I have spent thousands with CW so I hope they dont put a fuss up and lose a loyal customer :-(
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Gripper »

Deks wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:22 am
I bought 2 AM GT 1 VEV's. I have been monitoring them both before being made aware of any of this. The first one I bought was laser accurate so I decided to buy the second one due to the accuracy of the first as an everyday wear and keep the first in pristine condition. The second one I was disapointed with the accuracy compared to the first. It turns out the first was 274 movement and the second one is 272.

I guess i'm in my rights to return the second one (still within 60 days but worn daily) firstly under the 60 days but secondly under the consumer rights being not as described? I have spent thousands with CW so I hope they dont put a fuss up and lose a loyal customer :-(
Well I returned my GT 1 VEV, unworn with all the protective stickers on watch and bracelet clasp intact, due to the lack of accuracy compared to what was originally advertised and I have just received an email offering me 70% refund of the purchase price as the watch is not in pristine condition?

The watch was never worn, as I was awaiting the outcome of all this, and was returned as received. Just replied to state this and enquired why they consider this watch to not be in pristine condition and also pointed out that the movement was incorrectly advertised in the first place as having a tolerance of -10/+10 secs a year and has now been put back on sale replaced by information now stating the tolerance to be -2/+2 per month, so therefore was sold to me having been supplied with incorrect information by them at the time of sale, so was not as described.
Mark
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by A1soknownas »

Gripper wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:33 pm
Well I returned my GT 1 VEV, unworn with all the protective stickers on watch and bracelet clasp intact, due to the lack of accuracy compared to what was originally advertised and I have just received an email offering me 70% refund of the purchase price as the watch is not in pristine condition?

The watch was never worn, as I was awaiting the outcome of all this, and was returned as received. Just replied to state this and enquired why they consider this watch to not be in pristine condition and also pointed out that the movement was incorrectly advertised in the first place as having a tolerance of -10/+10 secs a year and has now been put back on sale replaced by information now stating the tolerance to be -2/+2 per month, so therefore was sold to me having been supplied with incorrect information by them at the time of sale, so was not as described.
Good luck on getting it sorted and certainly stick to pursuing the full refund. It is unfortunate but it seems to be the norm these days to have to argue to get what should come at the first time of asking. Even if it was worn there would be justification for a refund as what they had for sale is not what you received. I wonder if they have contacted all of the buyers?

Maybe it would cost them too much if they actually took full responsibility for all of their recent mistakes such as selling the wrong WR or not getting the printing right on a dial etc and offering refunds. I am not sure what is going on at CW but I wonder if their recent investment and pursuit of growth has meant that they are making more mistakes than I recall seeing before. Which is annoying because they also make great watches most of the time!
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Gripper »

A1soknownas wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:36 pm

Good luck on getting it sorted and certainly stick to pursuing the full refund. It is unfortunate but it seems to be the norm these days to have to argue to get what should come at the first time of asking. Even if it was worn there would be justification for a refund as what they had for sale is not what you received. I wonder if they have contacted all of the buyers?

Maybe it would cost them too much if they actually took full responsibility for all of their recent mistakes such as selling the wrong WR or not getting the printing right on a dial etc and offering refunds. I am not sure what is going on at CW but I wonder if their recent investment and pursuit of growth has meant that they are making more mistakes than I recall seeing before. Which is annoying because they also make great watches most of the time!
Thanks. Unfortunately got to admit I'm starting to lose faith with CW. Along with this my COSC certified C60 Trident Elite 1000 LE purchased in the last summer sale was running at well over -10 secs during a 24 hr period, fully wound and worn daily. Went back to them before the current lock down and received it back with an invoice for a Mechanical regulation carried out under warranty. However it's still no better so once the service department reopens next week I'm afraid I'll be contacting them again about this too.

Frustrating as love the watch and many of their other models.
Mark
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Deks »

I have been wearing mine and it has a couple of scratches on the back. I wonder what they will offer me if I return it. Im very disapointed with CW and after all this my love affair with them has been badly tainted
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Re: New limited edition releases

Post by Gripper »

A1soknownas wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:36 pm
Gripper wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:33 pm
Well I returned my GT 1 VEV, unworn with all the protective stickers on watch and bracelet clasp intact, due to the lack of accuracy compared to what was originally advertised and I have just received an email offering me 70% refund of the purchase price as the watch is not in pristine condition?

The watch was never worn, as I was awaiting the outcome of all this, and was returned as received. Just replied to state this and enquired why they consider this watch to not be in pristine condition and also pointed out that the movement was incorrectly advertised in the first place as having a tolerance of -10/+10 secs a year and has now been put back on sale replaced by information now stating the tolerance to be -2/+2 per month, so therefore was sold to me having been supplied with incorrect information by them at the time of sale, so was not as described.
Good luck on getting it sorted and certainly stick to pursuing the full refund. It is unfortunate but it seems to be the norm these days to have to argue to get what should come at the first time of asking. Even if it was worn there would be justification for a refund as what they had for sale is not what you received. I wonder if they have contacted all of the buyers?

Maybe it would cost them too much if they actually took full responsibility for all of their recent mistakes such as selling the wrong WR or not getting the printing right on a dial etc and offering refunds. I am not sure what is going on at CW but I wonder if their recent investment and pursuit of growth has meant that they are making more mistakes than I recall seeing before. Which is annoying because they also make great watches most of the time!
Just to update and give credit where credit's due, I have just received an email advising me that the customer service administrator was unaware of the circumstances I described when they sent the original email and have now confirmed that the amount paid for the watch will be, and has been, refunded in full and apologising for any confusion and inconvenience caused. All dealt with promptly and professionally, somewhat restoring my faith in the brand :thumbup:
Mark
So I went to buy a watch, and the man in the shop said "Analogue." I said "No, just a watch."
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