C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
User avatar
A1soknownas
Expert
Expert
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:40 pm

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by A1soknownas »

exHowfener wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:23 pm
Yes, but Rolex didn’t promise 600m
Just picking up, not too seriously, on the comment that 600m should cost more than 300m. I'm more curious as to what financial loss people think that they've incurred as a result of WR being "only" 300m.
It is pretty simple. The financial loss is the money paid for something that was falsely sold. There is a reason why it is no longer on sale.
Maybe someone would be willing to pay more for 600m than 300m. The monetary difference is of course subjective, but would rightly exist.

There most likely is and should be an option to return, not just to replace the dial but for a full refund, regardless of any wear or 60/60. As a result, there would no longer be any financial loss at all and no debate.

That is unless they are willing to repair the watch to fix the defect that it is not 600m rated by providing proof that it is.

A Rolex doesn't have anything at all to do with this.
exHowfener
Guru
Guru
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 6:26 pm
CW-watches: 1

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by exHowfener »

There most likely is and should be an option to return, not just to replace the dial but for a full refund, regardless of any wear or 60/60. As a result, there would no longer be any financial loss at all and no debate
Well, there is isn't there? It's the Consumer Rights Act 2015 although the return (in most circumstances) is expected to be within 30 days. No financial loss, no debate,
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left
User avatar
A1soknownas
Expert
Expert
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:40 pm

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by A1soknownas »

^^^^ Yes, we agree that to be able to return ultimately settles any issues someone may have with the clock ticking from the point of alerting of the known fault. This did not appear to be in the list of options in the post we were commenting on though so let's hope that it is actually available. CW would not likely want to have multiple used items returned though as it would cost them.

So this is where the compensation element comes in. It is not generational as stated earlier, it is common sense in my view. CW would like to change the dial not the WR. So the customer is receiving less spec for the same money, in addition to the inconvenience. The one losing out is the customer, not CW based upon the original transaction. They are only going some way to provide partially what they should have done in the first place.

Someone has the right to be disappointed and it would not be unreasonable to expect or even simply mention the word compensation to keep the original watch (with a changed dial) as to return it would cost CW money anyway as it could no longer be sold as new and the dial still needs changing. CW may for example offer a voucher for the inconvenience to use on a future purchase.

I wouldn't call it compensation, I would call it good customer service.

In addition to the inconvenience, although used prices aren't great. a watch which was a mistake, has the wrong quoted WR in the manual etc may make it more difficult to sell or mean a lower price later.
Jasonchan
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:40 am

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by Jasonchan »

Strongly agree.
I'm sure no one like to experience having a new watch yet facing issues which have to send it back for repair.

60/60 exchange applies to all retail brands unless the item purchased is under discount or clearance.

Hence whether we worn it before or cut out the tag doesn't matter in this case.

At least give us a few options but not we bear all changing the dial cost. I'm sure all here who can afford these watches doesn't bother about the monetary compensation. However, offering to change the dial which requires at least a month before reaching us and take it or accept it terms...

Not really what top brands are doing.

Just to state... We were told its 600m but not as advertised.
JAFO
Forumgod
Forumgod
Posts: 896
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:59 pm

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by JAFO »

Jason.

What outcome do you really want?
J-Rock121
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:36 am

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by J-Rock121 »

I think a third option of returning it for a full refund would be fair since it was falsely advertised as that's a huge disparity in WR. TBH, I expected better than this from Cr Ward. Personally, I'd just send it back for the dial replacement since that watch looks great.
User avatar
Bahnstormer_vRS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25966
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:06 pm
CW-watches: 25
LE-three: 1
LE-foura: 1
LE-fourb: 1
LE-six: 1
LESeven: 1
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

The C60 Abyss SH21 is back on CW's website, as of yesterday, with corrected 300m WR for pre-order mid-February.


Guy

Sent from my Xperia 5 using Tapatalk

C1 GBT| C4&W7 BBMF| C5 BOB LE| C5 FLE| C7 Apex| C7 MkI 47AD| C7 MkII Harrier
C8 Reg LE| C8 M2.04 LE| C8 AD| C9 FLE| C9 Me109 SPC LE| C11 Mak Navy| C40 x2
C60 FLEx2| C60 Bronze-316L| C60 Apex-Elite P'type-AbyssSH21-Chrono| C1000
User avatar
Andyshall
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:11 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by Andyshall »

I noticed that Guy and I thought it might suggest that the replacement dials might be ready soon but I have not heard anything.
I wonder if anybody else has.
User avatar
A1soknownas
Expert
Expert
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:40 pm

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by A1soknownas »

Andyshall wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:26 am
I noticed that Guy and I thought it might suggest that the replacement dials might be ready soon but I have not heard anything.
I wonder if anybody else has.
As someone who owns one, would you be able to confirm what communication there has actually been so far? Did you receive a letter, email or call with options available to you?

Of course you don't have to say if you don't want to as it is between CW and the buyers. I am just curious to know how it was actually handled and what the experience has been like. Assuming that most buyers won't have seen the forum info, the comms from CW would have been all they had.

Much appreciated and hope you get the dial sorted soon, sounds like it is close :thumbup:
User avatar
Bahnstormer_vRS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25966
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:06 pm
CW-watches: 25
LE-three: 1
LE-foura: 1
LE-fourb: 1
LE-six: 1
LESeven: 1
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

I've not had any communication from CW, but then I don't expect to, as mine is a prototype with a unique dial that I won't be changing.

Other than that, if buying a new one is on pre-order for mid-February, that's the sort of date I would anticipate CW will call watches in for; subject to the Service and Repairs department being operational to do the work.

Guy

Sent from my Xperia 5 using Tapatalk

C1 GBT| C4&W7 BBMF| C5 BOB LE| C5 FLE| C7 Apex| C7 MkI 47AD| C7 MkII Harrier
C8 Reg LE| C8 M2.04 LE| C8 AD| C9 FLE| C9 Me109 SPC LE| C11 Mak Navy| C40 x2
C60 FLEx2| C60 Bronze-316L| C60 Apex-Elite P'type-AbyssSH21-Chrono| C1000
User avatar
Andyshall
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:11 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by Andyshall »

From A1soknownas
As someone who owns one, would you be able to confirm what communication there has actually been so far? Did you receive a letter, email or call with options available to you?
Andyshall wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:40 pm
I wrote to customer services yesterday asking for clarification on the depth and regarding the quality of the lume.
Much to my surprise I received a reply from Mike France first thing this morning.
He explained the circumstances around the fact that the dial should read 300m and why the black lume cannot be as bright as other colours. He was clear that the mistake was unacceptable, apologised and explained that Vallen will be in touch.
I have have always been happy with the customer service I have had from CW and I don’t think you can fault an apology and explanation from the CEO.
The first communication I got was from Mike France (above) followed by a formal one from customer services about a week later. I then enquired if there was any news on a date for replacements and checking that despite sizing the bracelet before recognising the fault that I could still return it if I wished. The reply was prompt and although they confirmed I could choose to return the watch they had no date for the dials arriving.

I have heard nothing since but I think Guy’s suggestion of mid February seems logical.
User avatar
A1soknownas
Expert
Expert
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:40 pm

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by A1soknownas »

^^ Thanks. Good to hear.

Sorry, I realised later that you said that the ceo had responded to your contact with customer services.

It is good to know that regardless of the contact that you initiated personally everyone else would have received a letter immediately rather still waiting until they were ready to complete the dial swap - and maybe still not know of the issue.

Personally this reassurance is good to provide confidence in buying something from them in future at full price rather than in the sale.

Thanks again!
User avatar
Andyshall
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:11 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by Andyshall »

On Saturday I thought I might find out if there is any info on the dial replacement so I emailed.
I received a reply today saying that after a ‘double check’ CW are ready to send my watch back to Switzerland and offering me a choice of a prepaid parcel or collection.
I have changed my mind a few times about whether or not I want this corrected or to keep it as an ‘anomaly’. I now need to decide.
Anybody else had an email and what are you thinking of doing.
User avatar
Bahnstormer_vRS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25966
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:06 pm
CW-watches: 25
LE-three: 1
LE-foura: 1
LE-fourb: 1
LE-six: 1
LESeven: 1
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Andyshall wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:44 pm
. . . ..

Anybody else had an email and what are you thinking of doing.
I believe one of the CWE Group members, who is Stateside, has had contact from CW and arranged, or is arranging, to send his in for the dial change.

I've not heard from CW about mine, but then I don't expect to due to it being a prototype with a darker smoked dial and case back.

That aside, I personally like the idea of the watch having an anomaly and would bear in mind that, should I sell it, to advertise it as 300m WR.

Guy
C1 GBT| C4&W7 BBMF| C5 BOB LE| C5 FLE| C7 Apex| C7 MkI 47AD| C7 MkII Harrier
C8 Reg LE| C8 M2.04 LE| C8 AD| C9 FLE| C9 Me109 SPC LE| C11 Mak Navy| C40 x2
C60 FLEx2| C60 Bronze-316L| C60 Apex-Elite P'type-AbyssSH21-Chrono| C1000
Ukyo
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:23 am

Re: C60 Abyss SH21 is 30 ATM or 60ATM?

Post by Ukyo »

I don't have any of the Abyss watches but would love one. That being said, aren't "mistakes" worth more on the resale market as the supply runs out? I've seen toys sell for hundreds if not thousands more than their retail cost of a few dollars because of the mistakes like a color swap. :D Pretty sure we're mostly desk divers anyway, and if you're not, the Abyss collection is definitely not the right tool watch because of the low-powered lume. Yes, there's the argument of I paid for x but received y, but it's not ISO certified so I don't think the price differs greatly, if at all, between the 30 and 60 ATM is there? Unlike COSC certification, is anyone really going to test the ATM rating? My point is if a watch is advertised as 60 ATM but in actuality is only 30 ATM, I doubt anyone would have found out, especially not the Abyss collection. That's not to say it's good biz practice and I think we're in agreement it was an honest mistake (?) on CW's side. I've only recently gotten into watches but so far I've read mostly good things about CW. The only major issues were the 9 o'clock logo change (I'm not a fan either) and that they always have sales and never to buy when there wasn't a sale. Lol Point being, I don't think CW was out to intentionally deceive. Who knows, maybe they were originally aiming for 60 ATM but couldn't get it up to that and settled for 30 ATM. Dials were already ordered and someone forgot to double-check? Whoever missed it should be taken out back, drawn, and quartered... lol jk :lol:
Post Reply